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January 15, 2010

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litbrit

Excellent post, Sir C, absolutely excellent. Thank you. I hope the young whippersnappundits (who shall remain unnamed!) will read this and incorporate its wisdom and ethos into their oftentimes a-bit-too-cheerleaderish stance i.e. Let's do whatever it takes to get the bill passed.

Here, hammer really meets nail-head with a *BAM*:

fear of the Cadillac Tax comes from a highly legitimate, indeed a highly moral place, in my mind, and is not a product of greed or obduracy

low-tech cyclist

That is one great post, Sir Charles. Thanks for fighting my ignorance on this subject - and I'm sure I'm hardly the only one.

Construction workers are often unable to work until they are 65 -- it is work that is simply too physically demanding.

If only we could require Robert J. Samuelson to work construction for one year for each time he suggests raising the Social Security or Medicare eligibility age. And kudos to the construction unions for actually doing something about it. Taxing this sort of plan would obviously make it harder for the unions to keep providing the same benefits.

I'd say that this sort of plan warrants exclusion from the 'cadillac tax' because even though it fits the broad definition of insurance, it's not insurance as we know it: nobody's buying a policy from an insurance company. It's more an institutionalized agreement among a group of people to help each other out in certain ways. It's not really part of the insurance marketplace in any meaningful way.

litbrit

it's not insurance as we know it: nobody's buying a policy from an insurance company. It's more an institutionalized agreement among a group of people to help each other out in certain ways. It's not really part of the insurance marketplace in any meaningful way.

Exactly, ltc! It really is more of an in-house contract among members to share the risk and cost of getting injured or falling ill than a "benefit" in the classic sense of benefit-as-perk, i.e. a guaranteed Christmas bonus or some other perk with which an employer remunerates a worker in exchange for his labor.

big bad wolf

nice hat, SC

kathy a.

this is a really good post. i really, really like the intergenerational, mutual obligations, good times and bad ethic of the community. that is exactly why i think universal health care is an objective toward which we need to keep moving. we will all get old if we are lucky; many of us will be unable to work at one time or another before we get there; each of us is at risk for something bad or even catastrophic happening along the way.

the "pull your own weight, pay your own way, you deadbeat" strand of libertarianism is just about as offensive to me as racial and gender discrimination. the independently wealthy can usually survive storms of bad luck without relying on the generosity of others, but [a] that doesn't mean they are better or more valuable human beings, and [b] the very rich get that way thanks to aggregating profit from the labor of others.

Steve Balboni

Son of a building trades union member here, Sheet Metal Workers.

Thanks always SC

ikl

Great post. I learned a lot.

Sir Charles

Thank you -- very kind of you all.

I am going to do something on the pension side of the equation one of these days.

I actually think that the model I describe is one that classical conservatives should adore. It is entirely private-sectored based, it requires a high level of labor-management cooperation, employees are acutely aware of what their health care costs and what benefit improvements are likely to take away from their wages, and the contribution rate/benefit level can be calibrated to suit the market in which the union and contractors operate.

TOP

Thank you for this informative post.

Also, what Kathy A said.

Labor Law Sacramento

Is this new reform going to work? This tax will cut the income of so many employees and employers also. I am sure it will cause problems to people around.

Prup (aka Jim Benton)

Wow: I actually clicked through on the post above, the one signed "Labor Law Sacramento." I found it was posted by a law firm -- not an indiviudual in the firm, this is actually spam by the compsny -- called Palmer Kazanian Wohl Hodson, located in Northern California which boasts of specializing in representing 'unionized companies' in labor law, providing employers 'legal guidance in every aspect of the employment relationship' and aggressive litigation where needed.

I am not sure which intrigues -- and horrifies -- me more, the concept of 'legal spam' or the position taken, or the level of writing in the note. Do any of our lawyers know anything about 'PKWH'?

low-tech cyclist

Prup - there are, unfortunately, an ample supply of law firms that advise companies on how to keep their workers from unionizing, and make it as difficult as possible for workers to enjoy any benefits from a union once one is in place.

How these alleged human beings manage to live with themselves is an open question.

Sir Charles - you're right, the model you describe is one that classical conservatives should adore. Except that such conservatives are implacably opposed to the very existence of unions.

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