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January 19, 2010

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Joe

This is terrible news. It also seems like a harbinger of the midterms and the rout which is about to occur in Congress. Because the Dems have little ideological discipline compared to the Repubs, my guess is everybody in Congress is going to run for the hills- which seems like the worst strategy possible.

I was going to write a comment on what the Dems have to do, but I really don't know. I think I understand the problems: (1) a big chunk of the independent voters have a naive understanding of how markets work and want more of a free market than is actually possible in a modern society; (2) a lot of voters really pine for "bipartisanship" or "postpartisanship" (although I have no idea what those terms mean or why they would be desirable) and grow discouraged by partisan combat in D.C.; (3) the anger across the spectrum for this corporatist, third-way, lemon socialism bullshit which seems like a constant accross the Bush and Obama Administrations.

I just have no answers on how to maintain progressive movement in light of the political currents affecting the independent electorate or how you accomplish anything in D.C. in light of the current interest group configuration (which is tilted toward corrupt, corporate interests which will need a payoff in exchange for even mild progress on things like healthcare and climate change).

oddjob

And everyone richly deserves the blame. In retrospect I regret voting for her, but I didn't know she would be this horrifically clumsy and I can't abide hacks, which Capuano revels in being.

oddjob

my guess is everybody in Congress is going to run for the hills- which seems like the worst strategy possible.

I unfortunately agree. There are times when doubling down is the worst possible thing to do, but in this environment at least doubling down on healthcare reform, sucking it up and passing the Senate bill verbatim, is the by far the best strategy.

But when recently have the Congressional Dems. ever displayed the nerve required to do that?

ikl

@$%^#%$^&$%^*^&#%^@$%^

big bad wolf

the lesson, as always, never trust a prosecutor.

i blame everyone also. very much including the voters.

Crissa

But, honestly, it is dumb to shake hands at Fenway Park when it's closed for the season.

Ugh. Brown is such a phoney. He'll never, ever vote for the positions that he parroted while being elected.

Joe

Yeah, but Coakley should have said: "My opponent, Scott Brown, doesn't seem to realize that it's the off season, and even Red Sox fans don't go to Fenway Park in the off season", or something like that.

ari

The upside: the Bayh/Lieberman/Nelson Axis of Weevils no longer gets to decide the fate of every major piece of legislation in Congress. (Seriously, 60 votes in the Senate might have been the worst thing for the Democrats, don't you think?) Cold comfort? Perhaps, particularly if you're uninsured or have a pre-existing condition. But it's better than nothing. And really, the status quo had begun to feel intolerable to me. Not to mention, Coakley well might have been the worst candidate imaginable for this political climate. Anyway, take heart, there are more battles ahead. Or despair if you wish. To each his and her own. I'm going to have a beer and watch my younger boy sleep.

Steve Balboni

I don't know whether to cry or vomit. I'll drink instead.

Corvus9

Me too. I was just dry sobbing moments ago. I hate everyone.

Politics isn't supposed to work like this. This is fucking Tragedy. The cause of Ted Kennedy's life has literally been derailed by his death. It's like Julian taking a Persian arrow to the gut. Unless he was cremated, he must be rolling in his grave.

You know what though? I am almost tired of blaming politicians. I think its time we start blaming the people. The world is on the edge of disaster, and the Massholes to this to us. Fuck the people. All this fucked up shit, these weak-kneed politicians, this bullshit national media, they are just responding to what we have demanded of them. We have losers and fools and assholes because we let it happen.

Sometimes I love my country and want it to succeed. Some nights I just want the whole thing to burn down so we can get out of the rest of the world way already.

I am getting very drunk tonight.

Mandos

I can't believe how deluded some people are. Does anyone actually think that even if they manage to kill this bill, they'll get anything better any time soon? Yes, yes, I know, they are that deluded.

Sir Charles

I'd drink too, but I've got just absolute shitloads of work to do and I know a hangover will make me feel even worse.

ari,

Yeah, now we get to add Snowe and Collins to the douche bag patrol -- but yes, 60 votes posed some real problems. And I am disappointed with my people.

My oldest friend from home (who is a Republican) sent me an email joking about this possibiity today and I basically tore him a new one. It's not a fucking game and I am unamused.

Sir Charles

mandos,

Affirmative.

Sir Charles

Joe,

I am going to work on some thoughts about this. Right now everything I think is angry and contradictory.

Corvus9

My last comment was old. I lost internet connection, and had to wait until now to post. I am gladdened, in a misery loves company sort of way, to see that everyone else around here feel about the same way I do (that is, massively misanthropic).

Ok, so upsides!

One, Coakley is an asshole. It's probably a good thing in some longterm sense that she will never ever be able to run for national office again, because there is no way she recovers from this defeat. Good riddance. The the FUCK kind of candidate poopoos shaking hands?! Fuck her. Really, this is all mostly her fault. The mistake everyone else made was misjudging her total incompetence.

Two, this may serve as a massive wake-up call for the administration. Not the Congress, of course, who are fucking cattle, but this will definitely force the administration to reevaluate their approach to passing things. Bipartisanship is dead, and there are no points to be gained in attempting it. They have to go to the bully pulpit now, and forcing people into voting for the legislation they need by making it extremely popular. Dare them to vote against the future of the planet. Dare them to kill forty thousand people. Obama needs to get his hands dirty. He needs to piss off senators. He needs to make enemies. This hasn't worked, and it's become his fault. The failure of bipartisanship is complete, and they must try a a different approach.

Third, it seems like there are two way to pass healthcare now. The first is the gambit method. Come up with the Conference bill, and put it up for a vote in the Senate. Make a big deal of it. Then, force the Republicans to filibuster. Really Filibuster. Maybe try to convince Snowe to not let it fail (I think she wants there to be healthcare reform, but she doesn't want to be put in the uncomfortable position of voting for it). Or, pass the Senate bill in the House. But this will look so totally like a defeat anyways, being forced to pass go that direction, that they will need to do something to bounce back from the setback. Like pass a strong public option through reconciliation. No way it goes away in ten years. Do that, and you can save some face. The Republicans have just bitchslapped the Democrats, and now the Democrats need to do something equivalent. Also, this would get the "base" back on their side. (Not really their base. A base supports you, not starts trying to undermine you the first time you can't do what they want.)

This is a bad thing. But sometimes bad things need to happen in order for people to figure out how to do good things. It's not a blessing in disguise; what it could be, hopefully is hitting bottom.

Now back to drinking.

Mandos

The root of the delusion is the punishment/negotiation model most clearly propounded by people like Ian Welsh, who says,

In 2010 Democrats will be slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered, because Obama and the senior Democratic leadership does not learn.

In 2012 Obama will become a 1 term president, and a right wing populist will get into power. That populist will turn out not to be a populist, and will do even stupider things than Obama economically (and may start a war, too).

The job is to prepare for this, to get new members and leadership in in 2014. Start working on it now.

Because 2014 and 2016 are going to be your last chance. If the US doesn’t elect people who are willing to do what it takes in those two election years, then the US economy is going to be a smoking ruin, far worse even than it is now.

In other words, a party whose base has proven to be unreliable in Novembers 2010/2012, at the beginning of a Democratic trifecta, will therefore start running towards courting that base in 2014/2016.

Um. Oy.

Delicious Pundit

They played hockey at Fenway Park on New Year's Day, everybody. And there was open skating for days before. Maybe we're more a party of Coakleys than we'd like to admit.

I have no doubt that the Democrats will freak out and act totally craven and run for the hills. It's like government by network executives.

Except for Pelosi, of course. Pelosi should be President.

I would say this was a tragedy but, honestly, the tragedy was 2004. That loaded the gun for Afghanistan, housing, etc. Now we're in the-first-time-as-tragedy-the-second-as-farce territory.

Corvus9

No, it still feels like tragedy.

Joe

Sorry-I'm not from Boston. Here in Chicago we leave our baseball parks for baseball. How did 2004 set the stage for the housing bust and the Afghan War?

Corvus9

This song, I feel fits this, or any, occasion.

Steve Balboni

And now the insomnia has kicked in. I've just awoken from my evenings sleep and I am utterly pissed off.

I see that Barney Frank has now joined Jim Webb in raising the white flag.

We're getting close to the point where I seriously ask myself why I even bother working to elect Democrats, donate a minute of my time or a dime of my money to the spineless weasels in this party.

I'm angry at the loss. I'm angry and embarrassed by the behavior of Webb and Frank. I'm also dismayed at how utterly predictable this capitulation from Congressional Democrats.

Corvus9

And another thing! The Obama Administration should press ahead and just have the EPA institute their house rules for dealing with Carbon, and do it now, because we will get nothing on that front. Might as well get 3-7 years of Draconian regulation in, one way or another.

Fuck the fucking Senate, man. Fuck the fucking Senate.

Mandos

No, it's clear that the Democratic "base" wants "Democratic" blood (the syncopation of air quotes is intentional), and that it does not want the Senate bill, really not. So Webb and Frank might actually have a point. It might be time to call the bill-killers bluffs, as it were, and try the experiment where single-payer falls from Reconciliation Heaven on the back of a winged unicorn...

Mandos

In fact, it's time to fantasize about what we want to get in Reconciliation Heaven. I think I want...a guarantee of cotton candy to all the good boys and girls.

What?!? It's a budgetary measure, FCOL.

Corvus9

Hah! Good ones, Mandos.

Seriously, though, The Dems really do have the sorriest excuse for a base ever, right? I mean, the point of a base is that it stick with you, through thick and thin! But here we are, with "progressives" (god, I hate that term) actually trying to FUCKING undermine the democratic efforts to make this a slightly less harsh and unforgiving world for Americans. And they always do it, too!

Shit, sometimes I think I should just call myself a moderate or something. Sure, I think capitalism is a corrupt system and support the socialization of major sectors of the economy and turning other sectors over to the workers, but the left so often just seems to be a bunch of nihilistic poseur. Fuck your principles, people. Come down off the cross; we could use the wood.

low-tech cyclist

I went to bed early, and I'm reading the election results at 4:45am, so getting drunk is unfortunately not an option.

When do they swear in Olympia Snowe as President? Not that it matters: while I expected the craven Blue Dogs (e.g. Evan Bayh, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin) to go running for the hills, I expected better of Jim Webb and Barney Frank.

Cascade failure. What a fuckup.

Thank you, Max Baucus and your devotion to your Gang of Six. Thank you right up the ass, preferably with something big and rough, and with no lube.

Thank you, Jane Hamsher, Markos Moulitsas, and everyone else theoretically on our side who made a bad candidate even worse by turning her defensive about this health care bill. Now we'll have fewer, worse Democrats. Just what you've been working for all these years, huh Markos?

I disagree with Ian Welsh. 2014-16 isn't our last chance. THIS was our last chance. 2017 is going to be too late to address global warming. It's gone. We blew it.

Dear Ilya: this is what it came down to. This is why you're going to live most of your life in a world that's cooking.

It's 5:15am, but thinking about that makes a strong argument for getting drunk. We're sticking that little boy sleeping upstairs, and his generation, with the bill for our failure.

Like Sir Charles said, it's not a fucking game.

big bad wolf

i think it is clear that what we need now are more social media strategy consultants and producers of violent films. that should get us back on track and make the unicorns appear from the smoking rubble. let us move away from a naive belief that things can be made better by effort and reason and embrace the cleansing apocalypse. a modest proposal, but mine own

oddjob

Yeah, but Coakley should have said: "My opponent, Scott Brown, doesn't seem to realize that it's the off season, and even Red Sox fans don't go to Fenway Park in the off season", or something like that.

No, that would have been an even worse thing to say!

Just a couple of weeks ago the Bruins played a game against the Flyers and they did it outside - in Fenway Park, and that ice rink may still be open even now.

Sir Charles

"Embrace the Cleansing Apocalypse." That's going to be the name of my new album.

oddjob

Oh, the final bitter irony of it all?

When I woke up this morning I heard on WBZ that Coakley even lost in Hyannisport.

Joe

John Judis has a great piece in TNR today on this subject.

big bad wolf

SC, can i write the liner notes? it will be my usual blend of folksy things my grandma told me, x-ray vision realism, and barely surpressed chortling at the dashed hopes of fools. put it together with your tunes and i can see it sweeping though entire small niche groups.

okay, i gotta work too

Corvus9

I'm up now. I could sleep, but only after drinking a lot of whiskey and milk.

Still can't think about anything else. Still wish I was thinking about anything else.

Sir Charles

bbw,

I would recommend something along the lines of the drunken pretensions of Pete Hamill for "Blood on the Tracks." (By the way -- has there ever been a better titled LP?)

Corvus,

Whiskey and milk -- together -- what are you trying to do to yourself?

oddjob,

I don't know what Barney is thinking. The House should just pass the Senate bill and try to increase the subsidy in reconciliation so that the insurance is more affordable. Pay for it with a bank or financial transactions tax. Win-win baby!

Corvus9

Seriosly, in a lot of ways the solution is really simple. The Senate bill has all the things you can't do in reconciliation. Pass it, then use the sense of accomplishment from that to make the piecemeal reforms necessary to subsidy levels and taxes. You can still alter the excise tax. It's a tax!

Corvus9

Sir Charles,

Hey it worked. I got some sleep.

Corvus9

Hey, here's Ezra saying what I've been trying to get at, only much clearer.

big bad wolf

SC, yes, it is a magnificient title and yes, hamill's liner notes are, uh, special.

the nice thing about drunks is that you can imagine that their reaching and romanticism as a glimpse into something greater, a sliver of revelation. from the sober-reformed, it often just looks pretentious.

corvus, sleep or not, mixing whiskey and milk is frightening.

nice matt yglesias's take, i thought. http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/01/where-things-stand.php

it's never over, you just keep trying. then you die and the next generation has its prophets of hopelessness and doom.

Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

Delicious Pundit:
I'm not a Boston resident but the Cask'n Flagon is still open year round. And packed at night during the offseason. And everyone knows the place. But the bigger point, it doesn't matter that Schilling is a douchebag Republican. How can a Massachusetts resident like Coakley not know who Schilling is? He was on their two World Series winning teams for cryin' out loud. I am surprised someone didn't ask her whether she knew what the "Curse of the Bambino" was.

Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

low-tech cyclist:
Do you really believe that Jane and Markos have that much power?

Mandos

If I had lived in MA I would not know who any of the sports figures are. I'm a Canadian and I can't name even five current hockey players. Some of us don't pay attention to pro sports at all. I guess I shouldn't run for office.

oddjob

I guess I shouldn't run for office.

Particularly when you want to represent a state whose biggest city is famously sports crazy, not just in one professional sport, but four.

big bad wolf

it's not simply a sports/no-sports issue in this instance. schilling made noises about running for the seat as a republican. there were stories about it in numerous media outlets. apparently coakley slept through that. you may not care about baseball, but if you want to be a politician, you should care about the political landscape. if she had, she would have done a bit of study on the guy.

oddjob

As Jon Stewart rightly observed in his rant on The Daily Show ("Mass Backwards" is the name of the video file), what she said was the sports equivalent of saying that John Lennon's favorite Beatle was Mickey Dolenz.

It's an incredibly dumb thing to say, but by itself it's not fatal. It's the sort of thing that would be forgiven a candidate who otherwise seemed worthy and was otherwise obviously working for your vote.

But she didn't do that, either.

ask doctor online

There are several different degrees of insomnia; three types of insomnia have been clearly identified: transient, acute, and chronic.

Environment Isnt That Ironic

I just have no answers on how to maintain progressive movement in light of the political .....
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