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September 01, 2012


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big bad wolf

this does sound like good news, ltc

Sir Charles

This does strike me as interesting, although I don't know that I have the ability to analyze it with any real credibility.

A couple of things occur to me. One, that this reflects moving four years out into the continuum of network television becoming less and less relevant. Two, that it may reflect that the presidency is occupied now, whereas four years ago you had the White House open for both parties. Three, that a lot of people on the Democratic leaning side of the aisle decided that they had no interest in listening to right wing blather or that they just aren't interested in hearing from Mitt Romney.

It's fascinating to see how small the numbers are for ABC, NBC, and CBS. The Fox News audience is almost as big as the three major networks combined -- 9 million versus 11.5 million.


I'm not surprised by the size of the Fox audience: they're all screaming for the blood of the Muslim Kenyan anti-colonialist. I actually would have expected it to be bigger than McCain's; they aren't in love with Romney, but they weren't with McCain either. Has anyone compared the VP speeches with the POTUS nominee ones? I'm guessing Palin and Ryan were very competitive with McCain and Romney with the Fox people. I agree that the disinterest shown by the viewers of the big networks is probably good news for Obama, though I bet they won't watch the Dems either. I'm guessing indifference probably favors the incumbent.


P.S. One of my (very liberal) friends did watch. He also watched some of the GOP debates. I've expressed my concern about his apparent masochistic streak, but he says it's good for the entertainment value. I'd agree if I wasn't worried these bumbling sociopaths might actually end up running the country.

Anybody besides me worried that if Obama is re-elected we might see one or even several assassination attempts? There's a lot of very riled-up people out there, and a lot of them have guns.

Joe S

Part of it may be Dems who just can't watch Mitt Romney. I watched John McCain- and, even by 2008, I liked and respected John McCain. Although I didn't vote for him, and I was never an undecided voter, I did watch the McCain speech. I just can't even stomach watching Romney (or Ryan for that matter). They're just too disingenuous for me to even watch.

Sir Charles


I will be interested to see what the television numbers look like for the Democratic Convention as well.

I think having the chance to rebut the pack of lies that came out of the GOP fest will be a useful opportunity.


I understand your sentiment -- I skipped the first night with Ann Romney (who I really dislike) and Governor Christie (or as Tbogg wonderfully described him, "The Outlaw Jersey Whale").

One thing I am truly sick of is the attempt by some in the media to portray Ann Romney as "beloved." I have to say she annoys the piss out of me. Every time she speaks I get the sense of someone who is a little exasperated with the help -- who are all a little slow on the uptake in Lady Ann's mind. She strikes me as hard, ambitious, and slightly bitter about having been stuck with the five boys while Mitt went around making his millions. And completely out of touch regarding life as it is lived by most Americans.


Sir C - re Ann. I get the distinct sense she'd find all of us not properly obeisant. Or worse -- dirty and smelly.

I say that as someone who found Laura Bush most gracious and likable.

kathy a.

OK. It's Saturday and I couldn't resist a little post-RNC kitsch. "Like 'Arrested Development' except real." h/t Maud Newton


Over the years Ann's displayed a talent for making statements revealing how clueless she is about the monetary privileges she's enjoyed in her life.

kathy a.

ann romney has just so obviously lived in a bubble of privilege that she cannot imagine things otherwise. not every first lady is going to be a hillary rodham clinton or a michelle obama, but as nancy pointed out, laura bush was gracious, and she had a genuine interest in reading and education -- something broader and more relevant to the masses than her own family.

so, it is rather pathetic that ann is the great hope for the GOP pulling in women. especially when the party platform is so hopelessly bent on beating down women, working people, people of color, etc.

eleanor roosevelt was also a very privileged woman, and mother to 6, five of whom survived. and yet, she was acutely aware of her good fortune and the plight of others; her husband served in wartime and during the great depression, and she was devoted to knowing what was going on nationally and internationally. i have seen nothing of that kind of interest in ann romney. it is an unfair comparison -- eleanor was one of a kind -- but it would be so much easier now for a woman of means to have learned something about the outside world, to have done something for others walking in different shoes.

Sir Charles


I always got the sense that Laura Bush was pained by her role as First Lady -- and I mean that in a good way. And I loved her description of herself to Barbara Bush: "I read, I smoke, and I admire."

Barbara Bush, on the other hand, is another first lady we were supposed to love and she struck me as similar to Ann Romney -- hard as nails, ambitious, and a little unhappy with the plebes as well.

Barbara Bush was from an era in which an ambitious woman mainly had to channel her energies through their husbands and sons. Ann Romney is a bit anachronistic in this age (although certainly Michelle Obama has had to mute her own ambitions to advance Barack's.)

Joe S

kathy, I think the GOP goal is to pick up successful women who either are or pine to be in a family from the 1950's. Living in a true "suburb" (I used to live in a much more urban neighborhood although technically outside of the Chicago city limits) has revealed to me that there are a large number of these types of women.


kathy, I know many, many women who might have written that same letter to Ann.

I don't deny her her life of privilege. I deny her the right to use it anecdotally.

I pulled up some photos recently: Eleanor Roosevelt at a Ohio coal mine in 1935, I believe. We're a long way from her these days with the GOP, obviously. But Mitt's docked-pay-mineworkers-hey-mandatory-but-not-required-attendance-at-rally stands in sad testimony. Quite sure Ann never checked in to their paycheck shortfalls. Why would she, should she?


Somehow I don't think Mrs. Romney would be caught dead wearing Pat Nixon's "respectable Republican cloth coat."

Joe S

Chris Hayes had a great discussion this morning on the relationship between organized labor and the Democratic Party. It's already online if it was too early this morning.

Sir Charles


Chris Hayes's show is remarkably good. He is incredibly smart and affable guy.

I wish that MSNBC would jettison Al Sharpton, Chris Matthews, and Ed Schultz and let Chris Hayes, Melissa Harris Perry, and Ezra Klein have their slots in some form or fashion. It wold transform what political TV shows are like.


It's official: Bain Capital subpoenaed along with a number of other firms by the New York state AG, in a tax probe that's been coming for some time.

Been a big week in Romney world. One would think if attaining the Presidency has been a lifelong goal, flirting with this sort of ethical/legal disaster would have been avoided at all costs. Caesar's wife and all that. Hubris writ large...ever interesting.

Joe S

Sir C, I think MSNBC wants a little more heat than Hayes, Perry, and Klein traditionally provide in the weeknight slot.

Also, I don't know about Klein. I think the constant shirt rending over being unfair to those poor, brave, honorable conservatives would make me want to puke after a while. Twice weekly statements of "How I didn't want to call my conservative colleague a liar and a scumbag." would get really old really fast.

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