« The Embrace of Unreality as Public Policy | Main | Sunday Papers - Book Review Peeves »

May 23, 2010

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

minstrel hussain boy

i told my kids "things were a lot easier when i was your age. back then sex was fun and motorcycles were dangerous."

even though, as a touring musician, i engaged in lots of extremely risky behavior (a stones tour is more dangerous than a tour in vietnam) i somehow managed to dodge the bullets of disease. despite using IV drugs, i was a pampered junkie who always had access to clean disposible needles. and my rule regarding casual sex was that protection is one of the things that helps to keep things casual. no helmet? no play football. no raincoat? no go out in the rain. no parachute? don't jump out that plane.

my daughters and son had free access to condoms, with me going as far as to make sure they were in the glove compartment, and stashing them in purses left lying about. i figured better safe than sorry. if they wanted the pill it was provided. i told them that in this time of history there should be no such thing as "accidental" pregnancy. that shit happens on purpose to my thinking.

my oldest used to call me the "condom fairy" because of my habit of tossing them about like confetti.

thing was, i brought up four kids, all through those dangerous and volitile years of teenage and did not ever have to deal with problems bigger than making sure that the protection supplies were ample and constant. no pregnancies, no disease. that's 100% success. i know that there was a lot of luck involved too, but still, 100% success means that most of that luck was the residue of design.

i figured that with my life playing music, i really didn't have any kind of moral high ground i could occupy comfortably. besides, since when did not fucking assume any kind of moral high ground to begin with?

Sir Charles

Sara,

Good post. I came of sexual age largely before AIDS became to be considered a threat in the heterosexual world -- which I'm grateful for.

Abstinence only education is just so absurd.

mhb,

You get good father points. And lucky junkie points as well.

kathy a.

sara, great post. MHB, great comment.

i'm on the verge of telling a story of how i know for sure that the one time can result in a pregnancy, and it's a good story that embarasses my sweet daughter to death, but this synopsis pretty much tells it all. except, we were in a position for a second child then, and we could not have been luckier.

Prup (aka Jim Benton)

I was going to get back to this rolling discussion yesterday, but, as I said, I watched the LOST finale Sunday night, and it took most of the day to pick all the shards from my tv set from the rug. (Not realy, but I did have the impulse. I like and respect tv and consider it important -- and would love to start that discussion some time, but not necessarily now -- but ths was awful. I wouldn't have minded if they left some of the questions open, or answered them badly, or gave theologically coated answers I didn't like. But their solution to all the puzzles from polar bears to wheels that cause time travel to the mysterious Charles Widmore to the Dharma Initiative, to the 'cursed numbers' was that none of it mattered. They could have put Wile E. Coyote, a couple of Daleks, a nude statue of Jean Harlow and the River City Ioway Marching Band on the Island and would have made no difference to the ending, and that was the only unforgivable way of wrapping it up -- worse than the ST. ELSEWHERE solution (the whole series was a dream by an autistic kid) or the DALLAS shower story.

Anyway, gettting back to the more interesting topic of sex and red and blue states and sexual ethics, I want to start with my usual 'absurdity from the land of the religiously weird.' And this at least deserves a couple of 'style points' for originality, a group of pretty standard pro-forced pregnancy groups have decided to protest the 50th Anniversary of the Pill -- on ecological grounds. Gee, I didn't know they cared.

But on more important matters, Sara, I loved your testimony, and mhb's. What i want to know is how long it will be before you could hand them out to a sex ed class in, say, the fifth grade, and ask the class to discuss them.

We discuss fighting the 'sex-negative' abstinence-only policies, but when is it going to be possible for any school anywhere to introduce a truly 'sex-positive' sex ed course.

I'm not just talking about one that teaches how to prevent STDs without the slightest implication that they are 'punishments for being bad.' Or one that teaches 'there's nothing wrong with masturbation,' or that contraception is a necessary evil.

I'm talking about a class that starts from the idea that 'it is not up to us to tell you whether to be straight, gay, bi, or abstinent. That's a personal decision and up to you and your personal beliefs and values -- though we can have a couple of hours of class time discussing the various arguments. Our job is simply to give you all the information we can to help you make that decision, and to be sure you know the 'right way' -- and I mean both technique and ethics -- to procede if you decide to.' (And an important corrolary of this is that whatever decision a person chooses should not be criticized or mocked -- or looked on as a challenge to be overcome. In this class it would probably be the abstinent who were most in need of this 'protection.')

I want a class that may say that 'sex in a committed, emotional relationship' may be the best sex, but that there is nothing inherently wrong in (consensual, responsible, protected) 'sex for its own sake.'

I want a class that at least permits a discussion on the 'cases for fornication' that you, oddjob, and I have made during these discussions. I want a class that treats masturbation as a positive thing that should even be taught and certainly should be encouraged -- both as a good thing in itself and as a way of keeping the decision to have sex one you make, and not your 'sense of urgency.'

I want a class that discusses the pros and cons of oral and anal sex as 'pregnancy preventers' as well as things that can be pleasurable (for both participants) in their own right, and i'd like at least a few basic 'tips and techniques' to be taught as well. ("Keep your lips over your teeth" or "use lubricant and take plenty of time to see your partner is relaxed")

I'd also like to see the class discuss another thing. Whatever the origin of sexual orientation (and i've at least implied that i feel it is a very coomplicated question and that 'we were born this way' is, to put it mildly, an oversimplification) it is not something that is immediately obvious to the person him or herself. Maybe it makes sense to try both before you settle on one. (And maybe, just maybe, 'settling on one' is a culturally-driven choice that need not be made. Maybe more attention needs to be paid to the possibility that most people are not on the ends of the Kinsey spectrum, and that even if you 'prefer' one gender, you might not feel the urge to stick with that preference 100%)

Well there you have a truly radical suggestion, but it is coming from someone who is, by choice, childless. (I never had a strong parental urge, and didn't want the responsibility of shaping another person's life when I was not sure I could do a good job, and had seen too many examples of the 'consequences of failure' throughout my life.) I'm curious as to what the parents think.

Prup (aka Jim Benton)

Two things more. First, I didn't stress in this post that one of trhe main reasons for having this sort of class is so that you can focus on the ethics of having sex, not just on the ethics of whether or not to have sex.

And while I asked 'what the parents thought' I'd love to know if any of you discussed these ideas with those children you viewed as 'old enough.' What would be fascinating would be if you could get them to provide 'guest posts' on the topics discussed.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment