Would You Believe Plan C and Open Thread

"Ceremony" - Chromatics

- The House Republicans are insane and uncontrollable.  Boehner's Plan B -- under which all income under $1 million would continue to be subject to the Bush tax cuts -- couldn't muster enough support among Republicans to be brought to a vote tonight.  And then the House recessed for Christmas.  It's very bizarre.  I assume that this might well be the end of Boehner's speakership. 

-  I remain astonished that Obama is willing to give Scott Brown another shot at the Senate by picking John Kerry for Secretary of State.  This is a horrible idea.  I am sure that Kerry would be a fine Secretary of State, but I suspect Obama can find someone else who will fit the bill.  In the meantime, he needs every Senate vote he can muster -- especially when one considers that in 2014 the Democrats will have many vulnerable seats, including Landrieu in Louisiana, Pryor in Arkansas, Begich in Alaska, Johnson in South Dakota, Rockefeller in West Virginia, Baucus in Montana, and Hagan in North Carolina.  It is easy enough to see a scenario in which five to six of these seats are lost.  With a 55 to 45 edge, we simply cannot afford to give up any seats.  Find someone else.

-   Just as I don't see a fiscal deal being reached because of the intransigence of the House Republicans, I also don't see any gun control initiative getting through Congress.  All of this talk about things having changed due to the slaughter in Connecticut ignore the fundamental nature of the GOP's House contingent, which remains fundamentally reactionary and completely immune to pressure from saner quarters.

- The vicious attacks on Chuck Hagel by the Israel First lobby are completely outrageous.  There has to be a point where people of good will say enough to this kind of thing.

- And in the spirit of the season, the passing of Robert Bork should remind us of how fortunate we were that Ted Kennedy and others stopped this incredible reactionary from having spent a quarter century dragging American jurisprudence even further to the right than it went. 

- Paula's discussion of the stupidity of Charlotte Allen (even dumber than Megan McArdle), made me dredge this one up from the archives.

What else is going on out there?

Comments

[low-tech cyclist]

I can't see the GOP getting rid of Boehner just yet. As long as Obama considers him a viable negotiating partner, it's in their interest to keep him around.

Only when Obama has come to routinely* insist on dealing directly with Cantor, Ryan, and whoever else would have to be in on a deal for it to win a majority of the GOP caucus, will they think of moving Boehner out of the Speaker's office.

Oh, and Charlotte Allen is pretty damned stupid, but does anyone outside of Wingnut Nation pay attention to her these days?

* IOW, the first time he does this isn't good enough. Obama's got to do this often enough that it starts sinking in with the House GOP caucus that this is the new normal.

[low-tech cyclist]

I agree on Kerry. And this is another reason why it was very, very important that Obama and Rice shouldn't have backed down. Whichever of the two really made the call to withdraw Rice's name from consideration, I'm extremely disappointed in that person.

As the reaction to running Hagel's name up the flagpole shows, they're gonna throw shit at everybody who gets nominated for anything. Any such person has to be ready to run the gauntlet, and Obama has to be ready to back that person to the hilt.

[oddjob]

"...In a parliamentary system, [Speaker Boehner] would resign and his party would elect a new leader. We don’t do it that way here … usually. But it’s hard to see how Speaker Boehner continues from here — or why he would want to."
- David Kurtz, at TPM

[low-tech cyclist]

I don't see Cantor wanting to take the job from Boehner anytime soon.

If he was Speaker, he'd be the guy either making concessions in these sham negotiations, or visibly refusing to negotiate. The former would end his cred with the wingnut base, and the latter would at least hurt his cred with the VSPs of the Village.

As long as Boehner's the frontman, he gets to take that bit of heat, and Cantor can be the guy insisting on a better deal.

The same logic applies to anyone else beloved of the wingnuts.

The amazing thing, though, is that no matter how batshit crazy and dysfunctional the Republicans in Congress get, the Village will continue to insist on telling us that both sides are equally extreme, equally at fault, etc.

[low-tech cyclist]

Here's one for the books: the Pittsburgh-based healthcare company UPMC, upon hearing that some of its employees were upset that their low pay forced them to go to food banks to have enough food to feed their families, showed their concern and acted to aid them by...

...drumroll...

...starting a food bank onsite for their employees to avail themselves of.

Wonder if UMPC's next step will be to set up a homeless shelter onsite for employees who find that what UMPC is paying them leaves them without enough money to pay the rent.

[paula]

That's incredible, l-tc, and despicable. Note to self: don't go there as a patient.

[paula]

re: NRA plan to arm the schools. What else?
It's the gun-lovers holiday drive: Guns For Toys!

[kathy a.]

and they blame, drum roll, please: video games and music videos.

armed fucking guards in all the schools. ready to shoot in a heartbeat. fabulous.

oh, yeah -- they also blame the government for not having a "national registry" of mentally ill people -- do you have any idea how invasive of privacy that would be? or how inaccurate at telling who is likely to commit violence? but they do not want to burden gun owners with registering, so far as i can tell.

[kathy a.]

this is just fucking great, too: while the NRA was having its press conference, a gunman in PA started shooting, then ended up in a shootout with cops. at least 4 dead; 2 injured cops. gunman dead also.

note: the cops had guns. buncha people still got shot.

p.s. -- there would not be so-called "copycat" mass shootings if there were not mass shootings to copy. the press is not responsible for the carnage. the nuts could not create the carnage without guns.

don't even talk to me about shooters "seeking glory." in the first place, isn't "i win, i've got a gun" basically the selling point for gun nuts? and in the second place -- this is hard to follow, so focus carefully -- a dead gunman does not see any of that "notoriety" that the NRA speculates is a reward for shoot-em-ups.

[oddjob]

Obama has nominated John Kerry for SOS.

[low-tech cyclist]

You remember how angry the NRA was at GOP Congresscritters for killing Obama's plan to give money to the states to rehire police officers that had been laid off due to state and local budget cuts, don't you?

Of course you don't - that never happened.

And now they want the government to maintain a list of nutcases, when they've been busily passing laws restoring gun rights to convicted felons.

Shorter NRA: do the things we've been against. Well, some of them, anyway.

[kathy a.]

* my "dead gunman" remark is because last week's big shootings both ended in suicide.

yeah, how 'bout the NRA's dedication to the gun rights of convicted felons?

[oddjob]

Shorter NRA: do the things we've been against. Well, some of them, anyway.

Yup.

[kathy a.]

shorter NRA: don't do anything about guns. guns matter more than you do.

[kathy a.]

i need to go bake some more and wrap presents and sort stuff for stockings. (as usual, i over-bought on the stocking stuffers. what the hell.)

[nancy]

Sir C -- Wondering what your Dad, retired police officer, thinks about the NRA leadership's plans for our schools.

I'm hoping that our nation's police officers will come forward at this time to speak sense to the gun lobby and the NRA. Who better to rally the country at this point? If I'm a cop, do I want guns, guns, and more and bigger guns out there? Guessing not.

[low-tech cyclist]

As best as I can tell, the world didn't end yesterday. The Long Count ended, the Aztecs weren't drawn offsides, and the Mayans were penalized five yards for delay of game before starting a new Long Count. Guess we get to celebrate Christmas after all.

Saw this over at MaddowBlog:

Q. How many NRA members does it take to change a light bulb?

A. More guns.

[Sir Charles]

nancy,

My father, who was a fire arms instructor for many years, and was decorated for marksmanship in both the Marines and on the police force, was an NRA member back in the 60s and 70s when their focus was on instruction and safety.

He was, however, incredibly anti-gun. He worked to repeal the regulation that required cops to carry their guns while off-duty which he thought foolish and dangerous and when he retired he dismantled all of his guns and threw them in the ocean.

He saw first hand how dangerous guns were, including suicides by a few of his men. He also stressed to me how profound an act it was for a cop to shoot someone -- at least in those days -- and how such things haunted guys he knew. He was fortunate enough to never have to do that although he had sufficient cause on a couple of occasions. (He disarmed a guy with a rifle once in a hostage situation when he noticed the bolt was not seated properly in the rifle chamber -- a rather big chance to take.)

He never let me even hold a gun. (I have never shot one in my life.)

In short, you'd be hard pressed to meet someone more anti-gun who actually knows what to do with one. He despises the NRA and thinks they are insane.

[big bad wolf]

is it funding issues that keep scott brown from saying, my time in washington taught me that i am closer to the dems than the repubs and switching parties. mightn't running as a D make him near unbeatable and give him bargaining power with the leadership and the white house. i don't want to seem him do it, but why wouldn't he?

[beckya57]

Sir C, your father sounds like a remarkable man. My impression is that many cops are actually quite anti-gun: they know more guns on the street put them at more risk, and they see the carnage first hand. I can't imagine what shooting someone must do to a person, even if the circumstances totally supported doing so.

[kathy a.]

yes, what becky said.

[kathy a.]

via balloon juice, miz allen doubles down. this is pathetic, on way too many levels to count.

fa la la la laaaa. there is a pie pumpkin in the oven, waiting to become mini-tartlets for the festivities. i'm thinking something short-bread-like for a crust -- what do you think?

[low-tech cyclist]

kathy - I tried a shortbread crust with pumpkin pie once, because the idea really sounded good, but it was just OK IMHO. Of course, it was a store-bought crust, and if I'd had the energy to make my own, it might've worked better. On the whole, I think graham cracker crust goes really well with pumpkin. But if you do shortbread, let me know how it turns out for you!

[nancy]

kathy, Shortbread-like always gets my vote. No rolling pin work needs to happen. In my case that rolling pin just never works properly. Damned thing. :)

Charlotte Allen might want to take a look at this series of police shooting episodes before pontificating any further. Four fully-armed police officers readying for shift + one Glock-wielding criminal nut-case. Four dead in a matter of seconds.

She's getting nowhere with this line of thinking. Although it's too late for 'quit while you're still ahead' advice apparently. Ms. Allen -- she proceeds. Wow.

[low-tech cyclist]

kathy - Charlotte Allen really sets it up on a tee, doesn't she?

Indeed, a visit to Sandy Hook’s staff website is a depressing experience, the sea of women’s names. Why aren’t there more men? Perhaps not enough want the job? But why? Because they are tacitly discouraged from careers in elementary education? [...] The Sandy Hook massacre was a tragedy, but it was at least in part a tragedy of the collision between feminist delusions and reality.

Feminist delusions? Feminist delusions???

Excuse me, Ms. Allen, but when I was growing up 50 years ago, men were a rarity in elementary schools because of traditional gender roles: taking care of young children was 'women's work' back then, and that extended to teaching them.

And while feminism has done a lot in terms of opening to women all those good jobs that used to be almost exclusively the province of men, it understandably hasn't been focused on eradicating the stigma of 'women's work' that still attaches to traditionally female-dominated jobs in most men's minds.

Most men aren't going to seek jobs as nurses, flight attendants, secretaries (to the extent that that occupation still exists), day care workers, or elementary school teachers, because of the overhang of traditional gender roles. It's got nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with the archaic worldview that Charlotte Allen defends.

Next.

[kathy a.]

rolling pin works pretty well for crushing graham crackers into crumbs (in a large baggie) for 7-layer cookies. especially right after reading about gun-nuts. otherwise, i'm with ya, nancy, about rolling pins.

ltc -- a pre-made shortbread crust? shame on you! i'm totally not up for making a regular crust, though; they require futzing and ice water and the rolling pin. shortbread is more forgiving.

[kathy a.]

oh, yeah. i do a non-gender-traditional job, defending guys in prison. and i visit my clients -- usually contact visits -- and we talk about very hard stuff. i give them bad news sometimes. i know all the terrible stuff in their cases -- all of it. she can just stuff it if she thinks the only solution to all problems is more manly mansomeness and a bunch more guns. it isn't.

i have supervised a good many men, some in non-gender-traditional jobs. and it makes my heart happy to see more men teaching, more men nursing, more male flight attendants and waiters, more men doing secretarial and legal support work. go, team.

[Crissa]

There's a traditional gender for public defender?

[paula]

As I think I said somewhere, CA does not have any kids, so it's easy to understand how she can be so clueless. She probably hasn't been in a toy store in 50 years, so what do you expect?
One of my favorite photos of oldest grandson (then, 3)caught the look of rapture on his face when he discovered Santa had brought him exactly what he yearned for--a kitchen set! Now 4.5 years old, he sometimes lets his younger brother play with it, when he's very, very good.
CA isn't around kids or grandkids, so what does she know? Her loss. But, she has no place speaking as if she were an expert on child rearing. (PS, I'm not spelling out her name because she trolls Google for mentions, then begs sympathy from her followers for the shabby way critics treat her. There are some things she doesn't need to know.)
Also, when I had my two hips replaced, most of my nurses were young males. I know a middle-aged guy who works part time as a church secretary. So what?
We're not wussing down society. We're finally sharing strengths that should have been shared at least a half century ago, when CA stopped learning about the world she lived in. If she ever knew to begin with.

[Sir Charles]

becky,

My Dad always had an unusually acute sense of the moral gravity of violence. And the ability to keep a cool head in the midst of it. A rare combination I think.

He had a good sense of too of what was appropriate to adopt from the military in terms of police work -- training, discipline, esprit -- while understanding the fundamental difference between the military and police work, i.e. that the military is all about bringing maximum violence to bear while the police should do just the opposite -- always use the minimum amount of force to get the job done.

Interestingly, I would say that over the last thirty years in matters of foreign policy he has been more dovish than me by instinct. He's just very skeptical of the use of force as a constructive thing.

People like Charlotte Allen have no idea about violence and what it is to be in the midst of it. That's true as well of most of the male writers at places like National Review -- their acquaintance with physical force is pretty much theoretical outside of having had their lunch money taken from them when they were in junior high.

One wonders how someone like Allen can't see that the cult of testosterone is what leads directly to these heavily armed misfits slaughtering people.

[nancy]

typepad -- testing. okey dokey. three previous comment duds. if they're lost -- good holiday weekend all. see y'all later. after the typepad fix. and le rest of weekend.

[kathy a.]

i should have gone with paper cupcake liners for the pumpkin tartlets. think the shortbread crust worked, but it's hell getting the little suckers out of the pan and looking nice -- maybe because i didn't run the crust far enough up the cupcake slots. for home use, no problem -- embellish with whipped cream, and voila. lesson learned, though.

i'm on a serious baking binge, and there are not enough teenaged boys around any more to take up the excess.

[nancy]

Charlotte Allen, meet Alan Jacobs of The American Conservative .

But what troubles me most about this suggestion — and the general More Guns approach to social ills — is the absolute abandonment of civil society it represents. It gives up on the rule of law in favor of a Hobbesian “war of every man against every man” in which we no longer have genuine neighbors, only potential enemies. You may trust your neighbor for now — but you have high-powered recourse if he ever acts wrongly.

***

My son told me that he was recently in a Seattle brew pub late afternoon -- post-May Seattle coffee bar killings at mid-morning -- when he realized he was aware of overly checking the exits. A healthy country doesn't ask that of citizens who are socializing and recreating out in public, doing no-matter. Buzzed? Flirting? Fantasy-footballing? Studying off to the side in a quiet alcove? But thinking *egress* in case of gunfire at one's neighborhood 'Cheers'? That is losing the thread.

Much less should a healthy country consider arming teachers, male or otherwise, in schools. Not sound. Neurotic, frightened and defeated maybe. Not sturdy or sound.

Paula -- you mean Charlotte Allen could end up here? Hey, bring it on. Maybe she'd be interested in reading about Sir C Sr. and discussing his police career.

Hoping third post try is the charm. We'll see. :(

Removed TAC direct link. Maybe that's a block, which would of course be foolish.

[nancy]

TAC link: let's see: Guns, Risks and Safety . Alan Jacobs.

[kathy a.]

that's a great link, nancy. thanks.

yeah, what your son said about checking the exits. how is that a normal, safe life, when we are reduced to thinking all the time about escape, in the most ordinary places?

i traveled to LA with my kids not very long after 9/11 -- my dad had cancer, i wanted them to spend time with him while they could. we all remember these kids -- really young and green national guardsmen -- walking around the burbank (bob hope) airport with semi-automatics, all dressed in camo. scared the shit out of me (although i was heavily pretending otherwise, because really it would not do for my kids to freak and draw attention, would it?). gah.

[janinsanfran]

Hi kathy a -- I think I remember a Guardsman shot himself in the butt in SFO during those days. Best link I can find. Another example of what more guns can do for you ...

[kathy a.]

squash -- slices, or pureed? i'm leaning toward slices (half-rounds, alternating 2 kinds); but there would be more softness and buttery slightly spiced deliciousness with pureed. decisions, decisions.

[beckya57]

I remember my mother talking about visiting Franco's Spain in the 1950's and seeing guys with machine guns in the streets. She talked about it like it was the most bizarre thing she'd ever seen. Depressing to think that we're just about there now.... Charlotte Allen and McMegan should get together, go to a deserted island and start their libertarian paradise, and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

[beckya57]

Totally different (much happier) topic: I know some of you also read Balloon Juice. The animal lovers among you should hop over there and buy some of their "Pets of Balloon Juice" calendars. Full of adorable pictures, and you'll be supporting their animal rescue efforts. There's a sweet story there about Garnet, a "petite" (mere 75 lbs) St. Bernard that was recently rescued and now is in her forever home with one of their commenters. Much happier Christmas material than this incredibly depressing gun stuff.

[nancy]

Thanks for that Becky! Just the thing for the graduate student in the family who keeps threatening to add a pet to the complications of his life and his tiny apartment -- the calendar might help keep his impulse at bay. :)

[paula]

Re: CA. Let's just forget about her. She and what she has to say are sooo forgettable.

Re: Checking for exits. I believe people who have been victims of violent crime do that automatically, don't you? I know I do. I also peek in stores before I enter, lock doors and windows, don't use isolated restrooms, memorize cab numbers on the way in the door and never sit with my back to the door in a restaurant. Call me crazy, but these little practices lessen my anxiety and allow me to feel safe(r). As I said, I once walked in on a house robbery, was kidnapped by cab driver in DC who mistook me for a tourist, was pushed into construction site on Conn Ave by three men, was raped once and threatened with guns several times (in and out of civil rights activities) and witnessed several violent crimes. That's why I say those who advocate for more weapons on the street probably have led charmed lives. They just dream about it. Thinking back, I'm sure I never could have shot my way out of any of those situations, but attribute my good fortune for being alive today to a combination of surprisingly quick thinking and dumb luck. And, yes, I've been treated for PTSD.

Re: holidays.
I may have been spared by the gun but not by that lousy virus everyone has, or by bacteria determined to eat my middle ear for Christmas. We'll get out of here eventually so we can join kids and grandkids in NYS and DC for some much-needed chaotic merriment. All best wishes to cogbloggers everywhere.

[oddjob]

i don't want to seem him do it, but why wouldn't he?

Scott Brown has a long political history in Mass. as a Republican. I doubt he would switch in part because of the idea of not abandoning the one who brought you to the dance, but even more so because I'm guessing the Mass. Dems. wouldn't view him as a particularly desirable candidate for their brand. He'd win over conservadems, but not the rest, and there already is a logical candidate in the House of Representatives to be that sort of candidate: Rep. Stephen Lynch (a former union iron worker, IIRC).

[kathy a.]

becky, that "petite" rescue dog at BJ is ever
so cute! i'm a total sucker for pets. my husband's "big" present this year is a donation to the no-kill shelter, although he'd really prefer a puppy.

nancy -- does your grad student know about visiting shelters? instant pick-me-up on a short visit. and lots of shelters enjoy volunteers to help socialize on-site (or do short-term fostering for) the animals awaiting forever homes -- win-win-win, without a permanent commitment.

paula -- wow. agreed that the would-be rambos have led charmed and sheltered lives.

TNC has an interesting discussion about guns and the irrational fear of home invasion. when you are up to looking at gun stuff again.

meanwhile -- cranberry sauce is achieved!