Post-election Open Thread

"Dancing Days" - Led Zeppelin

I am taking a schadenfreude tour through the right wing blogosphere.  Oh sweet, sweet, Himalayan pink salt tears o' wingnut, it is truly not your father's America. (Thank you LG&M.)

I am sure I will be posting about this fine night for days on end.

In the meantime, share your thoughts on the outcome and how your own personal gloating is taking shape.  (And those of you who are better people than I, can suggest ways to begin the healing process with our right wing brothers.)

Comments

[nancy]

One of the best headlines of the day: Netanyahu Rushes to Repair Damage With Obama.

Hmm? How does one undo insult after insult? Cheered on by the "he lied" crowd. Standing ovation from the House floor as I recall.

Saying a final goodbye to the neo-cons is so very welcome. Um.

[Crissa]

My mom has the album with that cover...

[low-tech cyclist]

Tom Levenson at Balloon Juice:

A while back, the Senate had a choice: entertain the nomination of a grandmotherly law professor to serve as the first head of a novel Consumer Finance Protection Bureau—or to send Elizabeth Warren packing as part of a larger campaign to prevent that new body ever taking action.

You know the rest of the story. The GOP minority wouldn't deign to even allow a vote on her confirmation, dismissing her - they thought - back to the groves of academe. She found another path, and kicked GOP butt the other night. In less than two months, she'll be one of the Senators on the other side of the aisle from them.

GOP obstruction FAIL.

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

Pne under the radar story that should be interesting to watch was the result in the Colorado legislative races that will result in both the Speaker of the State House and the Senate President being openly gay. This was great news fr any state, but for the state that contains the 'Vatican City of Evangelicalism' and is the home of Focus on the Family makes it even more delightful.

And one other thing noted on Colorado Pols, many of the more prominent anti-Muslim campaigners and Representatives lost. Not all, we've still got the Kings, and Michelle squeaked by, but a lot of others went down -- presumably and hopefully including Allan West. And definitely including Adam Hasner, apparently a close friend and co-worker with Pam Geller.

[low-tech cyclist]

TNC:

I am hearing a great deal of talk about "appealing to Hispanics" and "appealing to women." But I am not hearing much about endorsing actual policies. What happened last night is not a matter of cosmetics. This is not false consciousness. This a real response to real policies. Mitt Romney actually endorsed Arizona's immigration policies. You can't fix this by flashing more pictures of brown people.

This is not a "branding problem." This is a "problem problem." Latino voters didn't go crazy. Latino voters went voter.

Exactly. The GOP, led by its Presidential candidate, has spent all year in a full-throated demonization of all people not like them. They can put lipstick on that pig if they want to, but it's not going to hide the pig.

And as I've said before, I think they've gone too far down that road for too long to be able to pull themselves out of it very soon. The GOP, to paraphrase Al Capp (and to keep using the pig metaphor), is the party of Seniors Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything. They're the Party of White Resentment, and the funny thing is, it's resentment mostly about stuff that's been made up in order to raise angry old white men's anger level.

The GOP really does have a serious problem, and it may not be fixable until a lot of angry old white men die off.

[slybrarian]

I believe that the GOP will think about what's happened and decide that they have to win back Hispanics. They will do so by doing everything in their power to obstruct any chance of Puerto Rico becoming a state, probably in the most racist terms they can dream up. They will then be shocked - shocked! - when they go from getting 40% of the Latino vote to 10%.

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

In checking out the Comservative blogospher, puh-leeeze check out this screed from Eric Dondero as he gives up his blog and renounces electoral politics for the path of 'revolt.'

What do I mean by that?

Well, to each his own. Some may choose to push secession in their state legislatures. Others may choose to leave the U.S. for good (Costa Rica, Switzerland, Italy, Argentina, Hong Kong, Israel). Still others may want to personally separate themselves from the United States here in North America while still living under communist rule' the Glenn Beck, grab your guns, food storage, build bunkers, survivalist route. I heartily endorse all these efforts.

Express your hatred, shame, and outright disgust with anyone you know who voted Democrat

However, for me, I'm choosing another rather unique path; a personal boycott, if you will. Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt.

I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted 'O'. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats.

Let us hope there will be many Libertarians following his advice and example if socially 'going Galt.' And, to quote Ko-ko

They'd none of 'em be missed, no they'd none of 'em be missed

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

Am I the only one who is getting error messages when I try to refresh that tell me go away a few minutes and try later? If not, "Hey, Typepad, you got yourslef a new glitch..."

[big bad wolf]

crissa,

ouch

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

Btw the Dondero piece was h/t Delaware Liberal, as is this piece from the World of wrestling and the response to Linda McMahon's second failed try for Senate:

Roddy Piper was not happy about hearing about what Linda McMahon spent: “Can spend 90 million on losing elections but won’t give the people that earned that money for them medical or retirement help of any kind.” (You see, one way that Vince and Linda ‘built this’ was to designate their superstars as ‘independent contractors’, not employees. Hence, no pensions or health insurance. Oh, and WWE owns the monickers for the characters, so the wrestlers get screwed out of royalty money as well.)

What a glorious crew of candidartes the Republicans fielded this time, with Linda joining the Slumlord Rick Berg, the possibly literally crazy Kerry Bentivolio, the deadbeat dad Joe Walsh, all under the tax evading perjurer -- one of those residence statements has to be a lie -- heading the ticket.

Not all Democrats are angels, to be sure -- and the time I broke my principles (mentioned in the election day thread) and voted for a homophobe for state Senator almost bt me, since my candidate -- voted for only because the Republican was truly evil but mostlt for the (D) after his name -- threatened to caucus with the Republicans once he got to Albany. He's still going to be too close to them and to a group of conservadems -- mostly ethnic -- who may try and roll back the SSM law.

But we're still behind them on certifiable lunatics, crazy tweeters, prosecutable felons and simple sons of bitches by at least five to one.

[janinsanfran]

Looking forward, I want to share this California article about both our state's considerable experience with how Republicans can be expected to dig themselves deeper and deeper into their own grave -- and how the rest of us can fight to recover a viable democratic (small "d") polity.

Republicans can be expected to try to drag the rest of us down along with "their country" (all mythical) yet further, but we can win a better future if we work for it.

It would be really a good thing if the rest of the country can learn from our shambling efforts here and not have to fall so far.

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

Welcome jan, and congratulations on the success you had. No, you didn't win this time, but it was pretty obvious which side was 'on the side of history' and you know as certainly as SSM proponents you will win eventually -- and in fact, soon.

But thank you for getting a vital question that far 'up the hill.' I hope you are as happy looking in the mirror as you deserve to be.

[kathy a.]

thanks for the link, jan! (and for your hard, wonderful work.)

i'm really pleased that the CA state legislature now has a democratic super-majority in both houses! the news stories note that now there are the votes to raise taxes. what hasn't been mentioned is that we also need a supermajority to pass a state budget -- which has led to endless wrangling, and times when the state controller simply stops writing checks.

[oddjob]

@slybrarian | November 08, 2012 at 09:33 AM

I think you've nailed it.

[janinsanfran]

Obviously I am deeply disappointed by the failure of Prop 34 to replace the death penalty in California -- but I have no doubt we won the message frame. Most people here and soon many other states -- will be talking about the death penalty in terms of "is it worth it?" both economically and at the risk of executing the innocent. And as that percolates through the population, it will get much easier to get to "no."

[kathy a.]

times, they are a-changing. yes, yes they are.

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

jan: I know no one ever uses this argument, but I know if I were the survivor of a killed loved one, and got satisfaction from revenge. I would get far more from knowing the person was alive and suffering than from hearing he was dead. (Think about hearing someone had died before trial, and isn't your first reaction 'he escaped punishment'? Then why should the death penalty bring 'closure'? Conviction, yes, that is closure. No need for the death.)

I think the success of two causes are likely to help yours, marijuana legalization -- which lowers the prison population dramatically -- and an end to prison privatization. Both are also worth supporting on their own merits, but each help your cause to make the point above.

[paula]

Jan---you deserve a big thank you for all the work you did. I'm sure you're right---you framed the question and next time will be easier.

Here are few thoughts taken from Twitter and other places I've been posting:

I said Tuesday it was a great day for women in Massachusetts. Wednesday was even better.
Over the years, I've voted for many candidates I really liked and some I was willing to put up with. Whether old or young, tall or short, all of them were men. This election made it possible for me to consider a candidate who actually looks and sounds a little bit like me, who is close to my age and who shares some of my most important life experiences, including childbirth and grandparenthood.
Now, I don't demand that every person I vote for look and sound like me. Nor do I expect them to share my color, race, ancestry, religion or educational background. But, for at least once in my voting life, some common bond is a nice touch.
Make no mistake: This election was no fluke. I truly believe the tide has turned and the future is in the hands of minorities, women and their children, now more than in 2008.
We'll find out together where this leads but I think it's safe to say that, to be relevant, a political party must actually believe and understand the issues that are important to those who will inherit the future. Right now, women have a chance to shape tomorrow.

As some of us predicted, women and minorities decided this election. Old white men can no longer view themselves as average US voters.

Get over it Reilly/Gingrich/Trump. Tomorrow's voter is female, young, probably multilingual/multicultural + has no reason to listen to you.

Dear CSA: You lost, again. Sorry. Move forward w/US of A into 21st century to make it a win for all.

Dear CSA: We are an American family and we rise and fall as one. BHO, Nov 7, 2012.

What a joy to see the Koch Brothers and Adelson waste all that $$$! Next time, use it to help people recover from earthquake, storm, illness.

All that $$$ to get to those victory/concession speeches. Almost worth it.

Any relevant political party must actually believe and understand issues important to those who will inherit the future. GOP doesn't.

GOP to-do list: 1/fire campaign consultants, 2/stop calling women girls, and 3/replace 1955 wall calendar.

I just about flunked math in high school, yet even I was able to see the importance of women to this election. GOP should demand math tests for anyone offering advice.

[kathy a.]

this is what LWOPP looks like.

prup -- i agree that the conviction might bring closure; but i just cannot see how making another family suffer the deliberate state execution of one they care about can be of comfort. i think that is a false promise.

[Prup (aka Jim Benton)]

kathy, that's what I am saying, that other families seem to think they need death for closure but that they are wrong, that the conviction is enough. (Were I to accept the death penalty, btw, as I might in certain forms of terrorism or actual treason ("levying war against the US") the effect on the other person's family is irrelevant -- because that would make his punishment dependent on whether he had a family -- or the equivalent 'punish me less, I am a great doctor, think of the lives I can save and forgive me the one I took.'

There are lots of arguments against the death penalty, and most of them are valid, but this one is a little tricky.

[kathy a.]

well, i won't go off on all the other arguments just now. my comment about family members of a person being executed is perhaps a little emotional. but that is because i have been there with family members, while their loved one was executed. i never want to see that happen again. his mama was so exhausted that she fell asleep on the couch; i had to wake her up and tell her that her son was dead. she screamed that she couldn't take no more bad news, she already lost one son that year.

the man who was executed had been my client. he was mentally retarded, but we could not keep him alive long enough for the SCOTUS decision (Atkins v. Virginia) that it is unconstitutional to execute mentally retarded people. i did everything in my power to stop that execution -- winning a separate but related trial, returning at my own expense to the state where he was, finding witnesses for his appeals, urging his appellate lawyers on, working on clemency. staying with his family that terrible night. my guy's favorite possession was his sunglasses. the lawyer who was with him at the execution said he wanted me to have them. they are on my office wall, to remind me.

i can argue the constitution up and down, and i still do. but the bottom line is that my client was a human being, and we killed him. we did it with the utmost deliberation. and not one person was made safer by that hideous act.

[kathy a.]

if you want a ton of arguments and data about capital punishment, i highly recommend the death penalty information center.

[kathy a.]

i guess i just resolved my long-standing difficulty with outing my work in a public place. i have tried to keep my work life and personal life separate, for some reasons that still seem good to me. but now you know.

[janinsanfran]

I just want to say that those of us working for Prop. 34 definitely did encounter victim families who wanted the men who had killed their family members to get life without parole -- because they were close enough to the prison system themselves to believe that such a punishment would make the killer suffer.

For very raw account by a victim family member of why she thought LWOP would be a right answer, you can read this. The pain doesn't go away. Those of us who oppose the death penalty need to be deeply sensitive to the injuries to everybody involved.

kathy -- I deeply respect your work .. one of the privileges of working on this was to meet many death penalty lawyers.

[nancy]

Oh kathy.

I doubt any of us here are completely surprised to hear that from you. It's always been pretty clear that your legal work involved something more serious than arranging paper transactions. Bless you and Jan and the legion of good people who work at making our justice system live up to its obligations.

As someone who mentally tallies sad tales, reported day after day in the back pages of the local paper, of the mostly hapless who have landed in the legal system, I have developed great respect for those of you who do your best to counter that hapless part.

Prison reform ought to be front and center in this country. We have to do better. Ending our never ending war on drugs would be a good start. Capital punishment. Solitary confinement as well.

[nancy]

An emotional president ">http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/obama-tears-up-in-emotional-speech-to-campaign-workers/story-fnd134gw-1226513763750"> addresses his young campaign staff post-election. No dry eyes.

[Crissa]

Ouch?

At least I didn't say I remembered her having the 8-track to it, too ^-^

[Bill H]

For me the biggest argument against the death penalty is that if error is discovered you can release a person who is imprisoned, but you cannot unkill a person who is dead. How many people, imprisoned for decades, are released after being found innocent? Too many to be killing them.

[low-tech cyclist]

Speaking of releasing people wrongfully imprisoned, I've long contended that there should be some automatic way of recompensing people who've been deprived of years of freedom. There's no way to make someone whole from that loss, of course - once the years are gone, they're gone, and money alone can't make up for the loss of the years.

But we ought to have some automatic monetary recompense anyway, one that they don't have to sue the state for, once the state has conceded that they were wrongfully imprisoned.

And it ought to be nontrivial - say, $100K per year unjustly imprisoned - both to make up for the loss of those years and enough so that prosecutors who are found to have been a bit too willing to put the innocent in jail along with the guilty at least wind up losing their jobs because the state decides they can't afford that sort of prosecutor.

[Sir Charles]

Crissa,

Ha!

I thought a little Led Zeppelin might draw out our friend Corvus from his hiding place. (Plus, I really like that song.)

Bill,

Precisely. As someone who has spent his adult life living with the vagaries of litigation, I came to the conclusion that judges and juries simply should not have the power to deprive people of life. Mistakes are made and they should not be uncorrectible.

l-t c,

I think it varies from state to state, but at least some jurisdictions have attempted to compensated the wrongly imprisoned. Of course there really is no way to compensate someone for the loss of years of freedom.

[low-tech cyclist]

Kevin Drum's got some good thoughts about what it's going to take for the GOP to win Hispanics over to its cause. IMHO, it applies to women, blacks, and pretty much everybody Not Like Them just as well as it does to Hispanics.

Lightening up on immigration won't be enough. Like it or not, conservatives are going to need a much more thorough housecleaning if they want to survive in an increasingly diverse future. No more gratuitous ethnic mockery. No more pretense that reverse racism is the real racism. No more suggestions that minorities just want a handout. No more screeching about the incipient threat of Sharia law. No more saturation coverage of the pathetic New Black Panthers. No more complaining that blacks get to use the N word but whites don't. No more summers of hate on Fox News. No more tolerance for Dinesh D'Souza and his "roots of Obama's rage" schtick; or for Glenn Beck saying Obama has a "deep-seated hatred of white people"; or for Rush Limbaugh claiming that "Obama's entire economic program is reparations." No more jeering at the mere concept of "diversity." And no more too-clever-by-half attempts to say all this stuff without really saying it, and then pretending to be shocked when you're called on it. Pretending might make you feel virtuous, but it doesn't fool anyone and it won't win you any new supporters.

Like I keep saying, they're too deeply rooted in hatred and disdain for practically everybody who would look out of place in 1950s America as they remember or imagine it, depending on age, to change anytime soon. But if they ever do get a clue that they need to do so, this is their road map.

[oddjob]

"When the 113th Congress convenes in January, white men will constitute a minority (47 percent) of House Democrats, the first time in US history for a party caucus (House Republicans will be 90 percent white men). If Republicans don’t change course, this could repeat for years to come. The latest US Census figures reveal another milestone: in 2011, for the first time in history, minority newborns outnumbered whites."

- Joshua Green in an op-ed in today's Boston Globe

[Sir Charles]

l-t c,

The question they face is that if they moderate, how do they appeal to the rubes?

Plutocratic economic policies only have so much appeal when shorn of their tribal justifications. How is the white family, in the formula of the inestimable Davis X. Machina, going to enjoy being under a bridge roasting its pigeons on curtain rods over an open fire while black people share the same privilege?

[low-tech cyclist]

SC - I think the answer is that the rubes basically block top-down change in any moderating direction within the GOP.

Bush and Rove tried to do immigration reform, and their base got up in arms over the prospect - and they were in a much better position than anyone since to bring the base along with them on that issue. John McCain, who'd been for immigration reform, threw in the towel on that issue before the 2008 campaign. And Romney took Perry out of the contest by basically out-wetbacking him, taking Perry's one decent impulse with respect to the children of immigrants, and holding it up as apostasy.

The thing that got me at the time was, Perry was a far more natural fit with the GOP base than Romney. But the base was willing to throw Perry under the bus over just this one thing.

And the same with Bush, in a way: all that Bush had done that the base loved, and his close rapport with that base, did buy their continued respect for him after he folded on immigration reform, but it didn't buy him a fraction of a second of a hearing on that issue.

White solidarity is a powerful force. The money base of the GOP has used it well, but they can't cross it. So now that the votes of angry southern and rural white men just aren't going to do it for them, they're stuck.

And I think it shows in the electoral map. As Nevada, Iowa, and New Hampshire become increasingly Dem states, the starting point for the next Presidential campaign is that the Dems have either a lock on, or a heavy advantage in, states with 263 EVs. The next GOP candidate has to figure out how to sweep Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado, with the latter two starting to acquire a bit of a Dem lean at the Presidential level.