Live Blogging the Veep Debate

Yes, I am doing this again, although part of me wants to put on the cooking channel, grab a book, and pat the dog instead of tuning in.

But hey, it's a night that the media is going to be obsessed about, at a minimum, so I am going to be there.  Hopefully a few of you will be joining me. 

Back in a minute. 

And here we go.  Biden -- quick, direct answer and then pivot to the old script.  And not a bad script at that.  Iraq war over.  Osama bin Laden dead.  Afghanistan over by 2014.  We don't need another war. 

Joe is doing a pretty solid job I would say. 

Ryan is holding his own as well. 

Joe is overdoing the manic grin -- but he shows a good command of facts and is engaging effectively.

People forget how good a politician Joe Biden is -- he seems to have prepped really well.  I think the seated format is a good one for him.  He nails Ryan on the stimulus money. 

Ryan makes the case for Social Security and Medicare. 

"They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar."  What balls this guy has.

Joe is willing to interrupt -- something that I think is a decent tactic. 

Biden kills the voucher program.  Really slaps it down.  And then raises the specter of Social Security privatization, which I think remains a potent charge. 

"Use your common sense -- who do you trust on this?"

Biden is actually really good at hitting on the points that will resonate with average people.  He had a good grasp of the bullshit that is the claim that small businesses will be hurt by letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Biden actually has a really good grasp of a multiplicity of issues -- I am actually pretty damn impressed with him tonight. 

Josh Marshall's take: 'I’ll say it again. Whatever happens, Biden’s making the Democrats’ arguments. They’re all right there. Nothing is getting left unsaid. Nothing."

"We are leaving in 2014. Period."  Fuck, yeah!

Jim Lehrer should watch Martha Raddatz and learn.  She has gotten a lot a substance out of this forum.  

'The last thing we need is another land war in the Middle East."  I think that this is a statement that at least 80% of the American people will say amen to.

Glad that abortion finally gotten into the mix.  I think Joe got the better of that exchange. 

And Joe circles back to the 47% when talking about veterans.  Nice bank shot.

Biden also works in the middle class at the end -- it helps to be a little bit shameless in this business. 

To sum up:  I think Biden clearly carried the evening and showed the way for Obama in terms of deploying various lines of attack.  I also think that there is nothing embarrassing at all about Joe Biden's performance.  I think he showed a lot of fluency on a broad range of topics.  (I think Ryan was okay -- but I am pretty sure that Biden's positions, particularly on matters of foreign policy, will be more popular with voters.)

Comments

[kathy a.]

so, what was ryan thinking, posing for those photos?

[kathy a.]

also, why do you think he insisted on being called "mr. ryan" instead of congressman? that "congressman" does not sound very executive-like?

[kathy a.]

hmm. not liking how this Q was framed as the embassy raid last month as a "massive intelligence failure."

right on the heels of rep. issa's stupid hearing. (and following congress cutting security funds.)

[kathy a.]

ok. she is asking sharp questions of both.

[kathy a.]

ha. she called him congressman.

ryan is going full bullshit -- and saying this admin is unraveling.

i wish biden was not grinning so much, but think he's doing great thus far.

[kathy a.]

i'm likin' biden. "bibi's been my friend for 39 years." and, malarkey. and -- good facts facts facts.

[nancy]

I'd rather see Joe with a slightly raised eyebrow and concerned fatherly frown toward this lightweight.

[big bad wolf]

ryan, as obama, and biden are proving my theory that no one born after 1960 can tie a tie properly

[kathy a.]

his tie's ugly, too.

when biden starts talking -- that grin is gone. he is ON.

[Sir Charles]

bbw,

I am the master of the crooked tie.

[kathy a.]

wait -- unemployment is down, but "we're moving in the wrong direction?"

again with the 5 point plan that is 5 themes, not any kind of actual plan.

[kathy a.]

damn. romney visits hurt people and gives to charity. what does that say about public policy???

[kathy a.]

"just get out of the way" -- oh, this part is really good.

[kathy a.]

medicare and SS. this is joe's ground, for sure.

[big bad wolf]

"their ideas are old and their ideas are bad"

[kathy a.]

oh, this is good - -ryan just wants to screw everybody under 55!

[big bad wolf]

"i gave you a simple answer. he's raising the cost of medicare."

joe's too aggressive for a president, but he is the bulldog a surrogate should be

[kathy a.]

omfg! "do you actually have a plan for cutting taxes 20%, or are you still working that out?" and HA! he wants "strong bipartisan agreement." comedy gold.

[big bad wolf]

of course, no president could or should act like this in a debate, but damn joe is fun.

[Sir Charles]

He really is killing it I think.

[kathy a.]

ryan is really a buffoon on military spending.

also, that guy saying "they won't be bipartisan" is enough to make a person barf.

the moderator is good about controlling things.

[nancy]

Go, Joe. He did.

[kathy a.]

unraveling of obama foreign policy... blah blah. ryan visited afghanistan twice and has a friend serving -- so what?

[big bad wolf]

question: is joe too hot for a cooler generation? us old argue-at-the-kitchen table types love him (my brother who is only weakly demo just wrote me that biden is killing), but does the twitter generation.

[kathy a.]

i have not noticed younger people to be quieter about their views. i guess someone should be checking twitter stats...

[big bad wolf]

the afghans

[Sir Charles]

bbw,

Aren't they an indie band?

[big bad wolf]

only the whiggish ones

[Sir Charles]

Ha! And finally on to abortion. It's about time!

[kathy a.]

ryan sounds so freaking stupid. he has no idea about specifics, and it gets completely wild re foreign policy.

omg. great question about abortion + religion.

[kathy a.]

ryan is boxing it in. showing his inner asshole.

[kathy a.]

the last question is about attack ads. and ryan morphed right into his attack closing. wow.

[kathy a.]

final statement about personal qualities he brings? biden for the win. ryan goes back to attack.

[Sir Charles]

kathy,

On the last question, my comment to my wife was "sorry soldier, I can't resist the chance to attack again."

[big bad wolf]

so on my hot/cool inquiry: mark shields on pbs said, as i was putting the laundry into the dryer that biden was paasionate and ryan was cool. note their respective ages. now mitt was near insane, but he is the elder. obama is my age, but i run hot even for my contemporaries. i am not suggesting that makes ryan attractive to younger people, only that joe's fire may seem foreign to them---why get so worked up, dude.

[Sir Charles]

bbw,

I tend to think not.

I think what killed Obama in the first debate was the complete absence of fire. I am guessing that Biden connected on a really visceral level.

Romney struck me as s little too amped, but it did not seem to hurt him in the least.

[nancy]

Thought it was a W00t for Joe. So did all my twenty-something college colleague "hi mom" twitter buds, bbw and kathy. fwiw

[kathy a.]

joe had it -- the experience, the facts. he never stooped to namecalling, but got right in there with exactly what needed to be said. love him.

the moderator was great, too. tough questions, and she kept things under control.

[Crissa]

I think younger people like more fire - because pulling it off cool like Obama does is nice but not as satisfying.

[kathy a.]

where is everybody? apologies for commenting so much, but thought it was a lovely debate.

for your viewing pleasure: benen on joltin' joe; and this roundup of prevarications entitled biden brazenly fact checks paul ryan thought entire vp debate.

[nancy]

Recommend a visit with Edroso and Pierce on this day after. I'm enjoying the humor directed at Ryan immensely. Reading the transcript of the event one is struck by what an amazingly inept scammer this guy is. Stupid Palin managed to charm her way through her debate at least. (And unfortunately.) Don't see a Fox gig in this guy's future -- someone, don't remember who, live-blogged from a bar in his district where not much hometown love was in the air. Wouldn't his objection to being addressed as "Congressman" have been something of an insult to his constituents? Probably too much to ask that they vote his outsized ego back to Janesville.

Loved when Biden kept referring to "Bibi", daring Ryan to repeat the word. Ha.

And how dull does he have to be to bring up a serious car crash as an anecdote? Remarkably remarkably Romney-like was that.

kathy and all -- enjoyed your running assessments. Being a terrible multi-tasker I can either watch, or get behind and miss too many points, which I did. The transcript is filled with much "stuff" I missed last night. :)

[Crissa]

I absolutely hate the Republican patsy on NPR today. 'Ryan won the debate with the sound off. Biden was so rude to him!' 'Cause smiling jovially and answering quickly and rolling your eyes when lies are told is totally rude. Gotta stand there like a statue so the zombie-eyed granny starved can win with the sound turned off, doncha know.

[Sir Charles]

nancy,

I made my wife read Roy tonight at dinner. That was a great post.

Ryan is indeed a punk.

Crissa,

I am so glad that I missed that NPR story -- stuff like that makes me nuts.