Debate Live Blogging

Alright guys, this is it.

Big night for the forces of good.  I hope the President had a Red Bull and a Five Hour Energy.  (Personally I'd knee Romney in the nuts during the handshake -- that would be a take charge move, eh?  I guess that explains why I am watching at home.)

In the immortal words of one of our more colorful clients, I'm as nervous as a virgin at a prison rodeo.

Here we go.

The Mittbot -- "I know what it takes to create jobs."  I am just not going to tell you how. 

Obama is speaking much more quickly and authoritatively.  I think the audience is helpful to him -- it makes him less likely to withdraw into himself. 

"What Governor Romney said just isn't true."  "Governor Romney doesn't have a five point plan, he has a one point plan."  "We have fought for four years to get out of this mess."

And blood has been let and Romney is unnerved.

(I believe I just heard a small whimper of satisfaction coming from Sully land.)

I don't think I'd want to be Mr. Gas.

Drill baby drill!

"Very little of what Governor Romney said is true."  "I've tried to be consistent (instead of a lying ass bitch)."

Candy Crowley has effectively given up on controling the debate. 

"It's conceivable that Governor Romney could bring down the price of gas -- by bringing back the policies that caused the economic problems to begin with."

Mmmmmmmm, wind jobs.

- No taxes on interest, dividends, and capital gains -- WTF?

- Governor Romney's allies in the Congress have held the 98% hostage for the 2%.  Slams Romney for his tax fairness comment.  Nice.  Calls him on tax cuts bullshit. 

- Obama managed to slide Planned Parenthood into an answer.  I like that.  He is doing a great job of dismantling the Romney flim flam on taxes.

- Finally a question about women in the work place.  Obama gets to work the women in his life into the mix.  It's a nice humanizing moment.

- Does Mitt seem patronizing in his response?

- Boy Obama is like a different guy tonight.  He just zinged Romney on Lilly Ledbetter.  And now he seques into abortion and contraception.  And he ties it into economics.  (My wife just sent hugs and kisses to the President.)

- Christ, where was this guy two weeks ago? 

- President Bush and I are different people.  And those were different times.  These would be tax cuts in 2013 rather than in 2003.

- Wow, nice zinger from Obama on how Romney is worse than George Bush. 

- Whose promises are going to help you.

- Immigration policy question.  Mitt is going hard core.  He's attacking Obama for not getting immigration reform through.  The balls.

- Romney is such a lying sack of shit.  I am sure that he is solidifiying his support with at least 15% of the Hispanic voters.

- Romney is a dick. 

- He is here. Totally present. 

- If the guy who asked the Libya question is an "undecided voter" then I'm Emma Watson.

- I will hunt them down and kill them. 

- "Oh my God - he said apology tour."  Go kick his ass. 

- "Please proceed Governor."  (You whiny little fuckstick.) 

- If people got married before they had kids, no one would have AK-47s.

- I am running out of steam. Time to wrap it up, Candy.  Regulations have quadrupled.  This is bullshit.

- As is the notion that Obamacare has stopped businesses from hiring.  It's a weird lie and non-sequitur built into one.

Boy Obama has remained really fully on top of this thing from moment one.  He has been lively, responsive, appealing, and commanding throughout.  If the talking heads call this a draw, it is bullshit.

- What a horrible final question.  I hate crap like that so much -- Candy, why did you pick this nonsense?  

- Let's take the bullshit question and turn it into closing statements.  What the hell, why not.

- And nail the 47% as the final word.  Nice.

I am very satisfied with the way that Obama handled himself.  It will be interesting to see what the response is, particuarly in the polls the next couple of days. 

What do you all think?

I didn't know Romney was into bindage.  As well as wind jobs.

Comments

[kathy a.]

i'm following on cspan -- cameras other than fox news. http://www.c-span.org/Debates/

[Sir Charles]

I'm with the home team, MSNBC.

[kathy a.]

but seriously -- how did they even find uncommitted voters? makes me a bit nervous about the questions.

[Sir Charles]

Our friends at Gallup.

[kathy a.]

it sounded (in pre-commentary) like fox is doing the pool feed...

[kathy a.]

i hate romney. all bluster; no content. i want obama to roar.

[kathy a.]

wooot! a one point plan!

[kathy a.]

god, R is a stupid ass on energy.

[low-tech cyclist]

Is it just me, or does Romney sound insincere as hell?

[paula]

On PBS---Romney's despicable.Go BHO!

[kathy a.]

romney sounds like an ass. and especially now, pushing obama to his face. good comeback.

[big bad wolf]

we need to win, but that coal plant dig at romney was awful, if perhaps effective

[kathy a.]

excuse me??? the proof of a strategy re energy is that the price has come up?

i live in CA, just a few miles from oil refineries. we pay the highest prices in the nation, now over $5. this is because of a bunch of things, but locally, because the closest refinery just had a big fat fire, because of cut corners. long story, but i can see the refinery from my house, and i am paying more than probably anybody except hawaiians and alaskans.

[kathy a.]

woo hoo! a question about exactly what deductions romney wants to kill.

[Sir Charles]

bbw,

Eggs. Omelets.

[low-tech cyclist]

Well, at least you can't see Alaska from your house. :D

I had to turn the damned thing off. I just want to reach through the screen and smack Romney's smug grin off his face. He's more revolting than Bush was. And makes Nixon look like an honest man by comparison.

[kathy a.]

excuse me? like i worry about "no tax on interest"?

ok, romney just killed it. I WILL NOT RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH.

[paula]

Who has savings accounts? Only the rich.

[kathy a.]

my obama is on a roll.

[big bad wolf]

SC, agreed politically. but as a planet, eggs, illness.

however this comes out i am happy that obama saw he had to amp up.

[kathy a.]

romney is on Full Wingnut Budget Crap mode. what an ass.

[Sir Charles]

bbw,

My wife also had the bad sense to note that we don't like coal.

[kathy a.]

i am liking this moderator for moving the fuck along when romney thought he would bullshit his way along.

[kathy a.]

omg. omg. they couldn't find women! they had to look!

just kill me.

[paula]

I ran the state of Massachusetts, to the extent that anyone can!!!! Despicable!

[big bad wolf]

it is the lawyer in me: not just the surpreme court ruled against lilly ledbetter---the republican appointees on the supreme court. and we fixed that.

[kathy a.]

really. i think i hate this man more, the more i hear him. on the issues.

[Val]

Is it me or do all of Romney's answers basically boil down to "I will give you a job"?

Is he going to hire everyone as president?

[Sir Charles]

He has several very large lawns.

[kathy a.]

wooo! a questoin about how romney differs from shrub.

and -- romney is dissembling. "every woman in america should have access to contraceptives." oh, reallyyyyy????

[big bad wolf]

he's not the mitbot. he is a bit flustered

[paula]

Guess there were no qualified women at Wellesley, Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BC, BU, etc.

[big bad wolf]

what on earth was obama thinking he was doing during the first debate? i understand this won't move the meters, but it does tell us he cares, which one couldn't tell from the first debate.

"toughest wall street reforms since the 1930s" say franklin roosevelt in the 1930s! these harvard lawyers; no one teaches them advocacy.

[kathy a.]

oh, O is going in for the kill. "no tax pledge." "cut PP funding." "kill obamacare." those are promises he is going to keep.

[kathy a.]

that sucker romney: he hasn't done what he said he'd do. when the GOP has obstructed all along the way. and excuse me -- romney has NO plans to help all those poor people.

[big bad wolf]

hmmm, what is missing in the last two years. ooh ooh pick me. the stimulus

[kathy a.]

oooh. immigration question. romney cannot help but fuck this up.

[kathy a.]

he wants talented people to come here "legally." and to deport kids whose parents brought them. asshole.

[paula]

Won't put in place magnets like driver's licenses. like yours, Lorraine.

[big bad wolf]

"if my daughter or yours, looks to somebody like somebody who might not be a citizen" nice

[kathy a.]

"self deportation means, let people make their own choice." holy shit.

[kathy a.]

romney just wandered off into retirement investments -- while the topic was immigration. holy shit.

[kathy a.]

"apology tour." what an ass.

[kathy a.]

that's not what we do.

[big bad wolf]

wow. joe biden has been coaching barack. that say it louder candy was magnificient

[paula]

Blech, blech, blech. Romney makes me want to vomit.

[Sir Charles]

Does he have a hidden teleprompter?

[kathy a.]

that freakhead does not want to take weapons away. he thinks the big thing is "2 parents in the home." i hate him. his only idea about social issues is "just tell people to live more virutously."

[kathy a.]

oh, seriously? mr. export jobs is going to declare china a bad trade partner on day one?

[kathy a.]

and oh, seriously? obamacare is the thing keeping people from hiring? also, china?

[paula]

Why would anyone come from another country to open a small business here?
A printer, dentist, mechanic--especially if they have no employer sponsor, and realize they are not welcome?

[Crissa]

Saw Obama smiling through gritted teeth a few times tonight.

[paula]

Re: Obama looking like a fighter. That's something men seem to need to see more than women, who prefer straight talk to alpha dog body language.

[Paula B]

Remind me to tell my granddaughters to study hard so, someday, their names can be in a big blue binder, in case some guy needs a woman to round out his staff.

Geez, if I had known raising a kid alone was going to turn him into a cold killer who could use a legally purchased AK47 to off a couple of dozen innocent folks in a movie theater, I would have married the first person I could find with a steady income and full complement of gentleman parts. Luckily, my kid was an anomaly who grew up to be a decent human being. Not that I had anything to do with it.

[paula]

On Twitter:
Aaron B. Leavy ‏@aaronleavy
In honor of Mitt, all Staples three ring binders - previously $1.00 (man's price) are now priced to move at a lady-lovin' 71 cents.

[kathy a.]

the numbers don't add up.

also, mr. sullivan appears to not need the fainting couches today.

[paula]

OJ---did you feel the quake? I didn't notice anything out here.

[Gene O'Grady]

Occasional pedant checking in -- it's "non sequitur (verb)," not "non sequitor (which kind of looks like a noun)."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the lead time on a refinery from proposal to coming on line about ten years? Good reasons for that.

I have to say on West Coast gas prices that apparently we have designed a system where corporations are rewarded for dangerous incompetence by being able to charge higher prices. Market failure, anyone?

[oddjob]

OJ---did you feel the quake? I didn't notice anything out here.

I just learned of it while reading this morning's Boston Globe.

:)

[Sir Charles]

Gene,

Typo fixed.

Refineries do indeed take a really long time to get permitted and built.

[Beckya57]

I didn't watch, because I would have broken our brand-new TV if I had--Romney's insufferable smugness and lies cause me to have violent fantasies, despite my Quaker background. All the commentary points to a (badly needed) Obama win. I wonder if he got some coaching from Biden? Here's hoping he can keep it up next week. Funny bit this am about John Kerry saying he'll need an exorcism after playing Romney for Obama's practice sessions. I've always liked Kerry, and think he would have been a good president (for starters he would have handled Katrina a lot better). I still wish he'd had the chance,

[Sir Charles]

Becky,

I swear to God, Gandhi might have slapped Romney he is such an insufferable prick.

I think Obama is an incredibly competitive guy and the bad showing in debate #1 just had to sting. Plus, one gets the sense he really doesn't like Romney. He came out pumped but controlled and really had an excellent night.

[low-tech cyclist]

The thing about refineries, though, is that the whole issue of how long it takes to build one is a total red herring. The truth of the matter is, the petroleum industry has been shutting down refineries by the dozens for decades, in order to keep profit margins high.

From the (2005) link:

Over the past 25 years, 176 refineries have closed in the United States -- including refineries in Sugar Creek and Kansas City, Kan. A new U.S. refinery hasn't been built since 1976. Even with upgrades and expansions at the remaining refineries, domestic capacity is down 9 percent since 1981, while demand for gasoline has increased 38 percent

Today this country, which once had far more refining capacity than it needed, can no longer depend on its own refineries for all its fuel needs -- even when they run virtually at full speed. Imported gasoline now accounts for 10 percent of supply, and that number is expected to grow.

The industry's refining margins, the difference between crude oil and wholesale gas prices, have doubled and tripled at times to nearly 60 cents per gallon. Refinery and marketing profits, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, were up 292 percent for the last quarter of 2004 when compared with the same period the previous year.

This is from a 2005 story. But a quick Google search can verify that refinery closings have been continuing apace since then.

[Bill H]

l-t-c: The US is exporting record amounts of refined petroleum products right now, which would belie the assumption of inadequate refining capacity. From USA Today:

"Bloomberg writes that to offset weak U.S. demand, refiners exported 439,000 barrels a day more than were imported the year before. In 2010, daily imports averaged 269,000 barrels, according to the Petroleum Supply Monthly report."

[low-tech cyclist]

Bill - you are rebutting a claim that neither I nor my link has made.

My point is that conservative/libertarian gnashing of teeth about how we can't build new refineries in the U.S. due to gummint overregulation is really a big so-what, even if true. The fact that domestic demand is currently weak doesn't change that; in fact, it reinforces it.

And the link was from 2005, as I repeatedly pointed out. Back when people had normal amounts of money to spend, we did in fact have a bit of a refining shortage. But they don't now, so we don't now.

But thanks for stopping by.

[oddjob]

The Mittbot -- "I know what it takes to create jobs."

He knows even better how to gut a company and its jobs while making a killing for himself.

[oddjob]

Housing starts way up in September.

Whoever wins in November is probably going to have a much easier time of it than Obama has had these past four years.

[kathy a.]

oddjob, really, everybody is predicting that the next term will be easier. romney's promise of 12 million more jobs is basically what will happen in any event; so, it's kind of like him predicting that if elected, he will promise that the sun will rise every morning (which this failed presidency has not been able to promise). i really see no evidence in mitt's history to support his "job creators" theme -- as noted, he has a lot of slash/burn/strip assets experience.

and as somebody else noted (i forgot where), the rich have kept getting richer these past 4 years, so how come they are not job creating their butts off already? (one presumes the answer is that they don't want the kenyan marxist muslim person to take any credit -- which does not reflect well on dedication to the country or its people. or provide much assurance that these "job creators" will suddenly and voluntarily become civic-minded next year.)

[Eric Wilde]

I watched the debate off-and-on while cooking, dinner and cleaning two preKs was underway. My daughters were also interested and asked questions about what was happening, which was quite cool.

I have to say, I saw echoes of Biden's VP debate with Ryan in Obama's approach. It was inspiring to see Obama call out Romney's BS forcefully and gracefully. The president's content wasn't always what I wanted to hear, though by far better than his opponent's.

I'm actually interested in the upcoming 'lesser parties' debate next week. I expect to hear points of view not often expressed so forwardly, like environmentalism and full-on laissez faire economics.

[kathy a.]

on the horserace, and all the magic methods pundits employ for surefire predictions. ;)

and i needed that, because i did not think romney had the ability to piss me off so badly as he did last night.

[1] "binders of women," like 8 short years ago, no qualified women were to be found without really looking hard? (and he lied about initiating the binders; he used binders that a non-partisan group aiming to increase the number of women in gov't prepared and gave him.) this just oozed the notion that women are valuable in the workplace just to make the workplace look inclusive.

[2] had to give the ladiez "flex time," because they have to run home and cook dinner. (because, what? men don't have families? no, wait! families are ladiez work!!) um. really. this was supposed to distract from his position that gummit should not make employers pay ladiez the same as studly dudely men who obviously do not ever need to cook for their families, unless it is a photo op or something.

[3] the slam-down on single mothers, apparently blaming them for gun violence. i mean, wtf?

[4] and i don't even know what he was saying about birth control, but his party is against it -- advocating repeal of obamacare, de-funding PP, letting employers decide not to cover contraception on religious (or possibly other personal) grounds -- and there is a strong push in the party for denying abortions under all circumstances, for "personhood" amendments, and for treating most contraceptives as abortion facilitators.

"I don’t believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care or not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives."

In the past, Romney has expressed support for the Blunt Amendment, a measure that would allow employers to refuse to cover healthcare benefits that violate their religious beliefs.

so. this all makes me burn. romney obviously felt he was "reaching out to the ladiez," proudly. dude does not get out much, is the kindest thing i can say.

[paula]

kathy--thanks for spelling out Mitt's cluelessness so clearly. Last night, the man took me back to a different age--a different century!--one I foolishly thought most people were glad to leave. One in which employers actually fretted over finding token women to fulfill affirmative action regs, and all those other silly things the over-reaching gummint made them do, just in case. And yet, even women hired solely for the purpose of window dressing were an afterthought to this governor (of the state of Massachusetts, no less, home of Wellesley Smith, Mount Holyoke and Radcliffe before it was folded into Harvard)!!! He said it last night, clear as can be. The mind reels!
Who would work for him? He's the kind of boss -- nay, the kind of MAN -- we hoped had died out in the last millennium, the boss we make fun of in sitcoms today.
Not only do I not see how ANY woman could vote for him, I don't see how any married male under 45 could either, if only for the way he dismissed working women as well as the importance of family emergencies and necessary aspects of life that go hand in hand with REAL marriages and REAL parenting.

[Eric Wilde]

This married male (just barely squeaking into 'under the age of 45') was certainly turned off with Romney's transparent responses about women in the workplace.

[kathy a.]

go check this out. binder reviews!

paula and eric, i don't really agree about the "under 45" age gap for men getting real. my own beloved is pushing 56, i'm not far behind, and for many years while our kids were young, he was the more "on the ground" parent and i was the bigger breadwinner, pulling long hours. we switched off on things as they came up, according to our strengths and schedules. and that seemed pretty normal amongst the parents we knew. i'm positive that is true for other family units checking in here at the cog. it is a completely unfamiliar world for the mittster, though.

[nancy]

Binder reviews. Yay. Binders "R" Us.

Two points. When Mitt said that he was a "pastor" in his church, that was pure pandering to the fundies. Mormons do not use the word pastor to describe their church positions. Pastor is a strictly Protestant term. He served in a lay capacity as stake president and in the bishopric. One commenter I read indicated that his Mormon wife gasped when Mitt said that. Insulting his fellowship smoothly was no problem at all for the Mitt man.

Two. I'm wracking my brain for a cohort of women for whom Romney's statements last night would not have been insulting and I'm coming up short. Mitt's reflexive sexism was on full display. Well, y'all have already covered it.

I caught a glimpse of the Romney progeny on Piers Morgan several nights ago -- Tagg, Track, Tiff, Biff. Whatever. George Romney would not be pleased I imagine. These young men have the trust-fund bubble-life down. More "help" will be needed to keep these guys tended. Growing the economy the Romney way I trust.

[paula]

kathy---You're a lucky woman. And, you're right, there's no age limit to responsibility in marriage or family.
I know a lot of 35-45 year old guys who have no problem sharing the load with wives or partners. At the same time, they expect their spouses to contribute their share to the family income, so these men could never abide a candidate who isn't in favor of equal pay. Without equal pay for equal work, their family is losing money!
A propos of nothing, there was a story in yesterday's NYT about programs for the grown children of the very rich that teach them how to, well, be rich. It's for the likes of Trek and Truck and Mutt and Biff, or whomever. http://nyti.ms/Vc9atK Apparently money doesn't buy friends or self esteem, just senate seats and presidencies.

[kathy a.]

31 myths in 41 minutes. the man is a genius!

[nancy]

Thought this kind of summed up how Mitt views women in his real good and true America. I'll allow myself to go there because as someone who was a stay-home mom after serial labor-of-love mostly underpaid workplace gigs, he insulted me too.

Hey Mitt. Staying home with the kids isn't about having dinner on the table for thee.

[kathy a.]

good one, nancy. by which i mean, bleahhh. i've done this a lot of ways -- gave up a job or 2, but gained a lifelong career and insisted on my own path next; was stay-at-home with 2 tiny ones for the longest year of my life; was the big wage-earner, but also the art/costume/volunteer mama; and yadda. and, my beloved did lovely things for our family, and made sacrifices that mitt and the boyz would never even think of. we.do.not.count. in mittland.

the binders link just keeps loading new reviews. hilarious!

[Linkmeister]

Mitt's even more tied to the Gilded Age than I thought.

Romney tells employers to tell employees they should vote for him.

Newly-discovered audio from a conference call in June captures Mitt Romney asking business owners to urge their employees to vote for him.

Romney, speaking on a call to the very conservative National Federation of Independent Business, tells a group of business owners that they should “make it very clear” how they feel about the candidates. The audio, discovered by In These Times, also captures Romney telling the business owners to “pass… along to your employees” how their jobs might be effected by who wins in November.

If the Fed. Elections Commission weren't hopelessly deadlocked by three Republicans who are partisan more than patriotic, I'd think this should be worth looking into.

"Nice little job you've got there, fella. Be a shame if something happened to it."

[oddjob]

i really see no evidence in mitt's history to support his "job creators" theme

Neither does David Stockman.

[low-tech cyclist]

Linkmeister -

1) That sort of stuff should be flat-out illegal. I really don't see how it isn't: my understanding is that not only is it illegal to buy votes, but you can't extort them either. They're flip sides of the same coin.

2) And if it's not illegal, it should at a minimum count as a very high-dollar-value in-kind political contribution. How much is that worth to a candidate, to have a bunch of potential voters leaned on in this way on his behalf? A lot, I'm sure.

And especially:

3) Only someone so born to bullying as Mitt Romney would fail to recognize this as bullying of the worst sort.

Romney is the most despicable human being to be nominated for President by a major party during my lifetime. He's worse than Bush, and that's quite a low bar to have to limbo under, because Bush was worse than Nixon.

[oddjob]

Newsweek to join the Christian Science Monitor in being an online-only publication. It's printing its last weekly in December.

[oddjob]

I know a lot of 35-45 year old guys who have no problem sharing the load with wives or partners.

Years ago my 48 year old brother told me if they could afford it he'd be happy to stay home as a Mr. Mom and let his wife be the sole bread winner.

[paula]

That's great, OJ. He had a lucky wife. So,forget I ever attached ages to my comment. I just meant young at heart.

kathy, I love the binder reviews! What fun!

The fact checkers have certainly had a field day this week, haven't they? Without Mitt, they'd go the way of the Maytag repairman.

[kathy a.]

off topic: 2d circuit strikes down DOMA.

[nancy]

Charlie Pierce wrote today about the role of 'resignation' hanging in the air right now. I believe he's correct. The subject needs pondering. His larger point is that we've become resigned to the role of plutocrats in our politics. Not good.

Oh, and take a look at the Romney clan's latest conflict of interest. Tagg's Dad and Mom sponsored enterprise. $10M in seed money to jumpstart the elderkinder onto the Romney LLC expansion team. Next stop, Caymans and Isle of Jersey. Really does feel increasingly like whack-a-mole with the clock running out.