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July 24, 2009

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big bad wolf

i grudgingly think you are correct about obama, although i still like the moment becuase we see so few real moments from him (which, on the whole is a good thing; discipline gets things done). i also think that, having said what he said, he should not have backed down. it would have been better to refuse further comment.

the rest has little to do with your post SC and much to do with venting.

all of us try to live, consciously or unconsciously, in self-reinforcing universes; cops are no different, but cops have a lot more power over other people than most of us do. they therefore have commensurately greater responsiblities. even the supreme court, no friend of the ordinary person, recognizes this. see, e.g., city of hill v. houston, 482 u.s. 451; lewis v. new olreans, 415 u.s. 130 (particularly justice powell's concurrence). the problem is that the law only recognizes the problem after the cops exercise their petty power to arrest you and make you suffer in handcuffs, in jail overnight, in fighting the charge on first amendment grounds (among the very few cases we won on appeal in the bush era were some disorderly conduct charges that we won on first amendment grounds (surprise! they involved african-americans arrested on facts of lese majeste). i don't know how to make it different. i do think that condemning it, loudly and often is a useful thing, if not necessarily, in these particular (dire economic) circumstances by the president. for any person of any race to be arrested in the circumstances that gates was arrested is wrong. and, frankly, stupid. the president was human, but right, in denouncing it. i hope it does not hurt his other righteous causes.

the problem, as i see it day after day, is that power, even petty power leads to abuse. when one has power over others, some tend to personalize it, to flaunt it. cops have a very difficult jobs. unfortunately, like other people, they tend to emphasize their power in situations in which the threat to it is the least---an older gentleman, hobbled, armed only with his words and his hurt is an easy person over which to exercise power. that is not just a police problem; it is an american problem, but, if we are to address it we must address it publicly and not submit to the outrage of the blue shield.

in my job, i see a lot of cops. the overwhelming majority are good people, but even good people make mistakes. those mistakes needn't cost a job or a pension, but they should not be excused in the name of law enforcement and risk.

my favorite of my own cases is the one in which an immigration officer who had stopped my client explained at the suppression hearing that, although he had no radar gun and although the road was open and landmarks few, he knew my client was speeding because of this thing called the doppler effect. this amused me greatly, for i never expected to be able to beat the circuit's announced standard of showing defiance of physical laws. i won the case, but you sure can't tell why from the opinion---it would be too much for a court to say an officer made stuff up. i think that we must get past the idea that a dangerous, difficult job justifies whatever is done, and whatever is said in defense of what was done

Corvus9

Yeah, I have to agree on the take on Obama, too, unfortunately. At least from a tactical standpoint. Morally, I am proud of him for what he said, and saddened to see him backtracking on it, to whatever degree he is. I don't blame him for that—healthcare is so much bigger than him, or his ego, or any effect this incidence has on race or the cops—but it's still disheartening to see him do it. That said, fuck the news media which has made him have to do that. They all have nothing but my hate.

You know, I am white. Pale white. About as white as you can get without being like one of those porcelain-faced redheads of brunettes that Marilyn Manson is always dating. And I am terrified of the cops. Yeah, it is a sad fact, but I can say with, like, 98% certainty that if it was me, personally, in that situation, no way I disrespect the cop. I am am my best behavior. I have heard to many stories, and had 2-3 incidents myself, to think anything other than cops are a dangerous, dangerous presence. They're like tigers. You run into a tiger, it might not eat you, probably doesn't even want to, and if you don't provoke it, it won't. But the thought is crossing it's mind, it can if it wants, and nothing bad will happen to it if it does. And if you make one wrong move, it definitely will. Whenever I see flashing lights in the rearview, my adrenalin kicks in.

So, I guess I don't understand what Gate was thinking, or really, what anybody who would do such a thing would be thinking. You don't yell at tiger for entering your campsite. This doesn't mean he was at fault, of course, even with the class angle(which, I'll admit, makes me slightly less sympathetic, though it in no way lessens the level of injustice perpetrated upon him). What he did was human. You shouldn't have to stop acting like a human just because a cop is around. But you do.

Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

Corvus9:
You are right. I don't know what Gates was thinking either. As sad as it is, you can't talk back to the cops, however justified it might be. I've gotten bogus tickets before. One time, I actually got a little irate and asked the cop why I was ticketed for when we both knew it was bogus. The cop added an extra $50 to the fine because I dared talk back to him. Come time to go to court to fight it, the judge reduced the ticket back to the original bogus amount. Yes, I got a $150 ticket that should have been thrown out reduced to $100 because I talked back to the cop. Tell me that is fair. And then cops wonder why people don't trust them.

big bad wolf

i don't disagree that eyes down and submissive is the practical approach no matter how wrong the cop is, but i do think it is wrong to make this submission a civic virtue, rather than a practicality. and i think deference to what law enforcement says is not a virtue in a justice, no matter how good s/he is on other issues. senator leahey would seem to disagree. http://www.votesmart.org/speech_detail.php?sc_id=478693&keyword=&phrase=&contain=

sri

Wow!! I never thought that this will be such a big news. It went from Gates arrest to Obama apalogy. This has become more interesting than what I thought. So, I collected all the sites or articles (more than 250 sites or articles) related to this hot topic "Cambridge Police Unit Demands Apology from Obama". If you are interested take a look at news, video coverage, people views and reviews on this topic at the below link.
http://markthispage.blogspot.com/2009/07/all-about-cambridge-police-unit-demands.html

big bad wolf

in my narrow, righteous indignation i do not want to let pass that SC's title for this post is quite amusing and apt. a lot of capital invested, then backtracking.

Crissa

You go with the cops you have. I lost a father to an officer who thought shooting up a car that did not heed his stop request was a good idea. I lost a best friend to an officer threatened by an out of shape little geek wielding a phillips screwdriver at 50 paces. And that's just the ones I know personally, I know others who have been harassed and or killed by police.

So until we change how we deal with their misbehavior, and the rules they operate under, in no case do I believe you should stand up to a police officer.

Perhaps this is one place where I am cowed, but it is true. My spouse was angry at me tonight for calling the police on some angry guy behind our apartment building laying on his horn and starting arguments with passerbys.

oddjob

He should have given the standard "I don't know all of the facts" pablum.

Of course, he did begin his comments with that.

Funny how that's been ignored.

litbrit

Crissa, I'm so sorry for your losses. That's absolutely awful. Good God.

Sir C, I had pretty much the same take on this as you. I'll admit, though, at first I reflexively defended the president's wading in and denouncing the behavior as stupid. But then, when I saw the results--a media obsessed and a health-care discussion derailed--I wondered if our president having a rare undisciplined moment (I *think* that might have been anger in his eyes, but he's so damned cool and collected, it was hard to tell) was a good thing after all.

Then again, as oddjob points out, he *did* indeed preface his remark with the admission that he wasn't there, and he didn't know all the facts. With 20/20 hindsight, we can all opine that he ought to have just said, Listen, Skip is a friend, and I think it's best that I don't comment on any of this until all the facts are known. Next!, but then again, how could he not offer his thoughts on a matter that undoubtedly evoked memories that were as painful and personal for him as they were for the many black journalists who spoke of similar profiling incidents they'd endured? *HUGE sigh*

As you pointed out, the hyenas did indeed spend the following 24 hours (and more) braying about what was a singular incident.

My brother-in-law was profiled and subsequently pulled over for nothing, then dragged out of his truck and beaten and handcuffed, which actions would leave him with a badly broken wrist and damaged cervical vetebrae where the cop's boot stood on his neck. Like R, he's a tanned Italian with a ponytail, and he had with him, as he headed home from a big work project, his usual crew of Latino employees. Anyway, as you know, he won a record brutality case against the state, appeals of which are still pending. (He's our age, and his body won't be the same ever again, particularly his back.)

I think you and Pam Spaulding have the best take on this: the whole thing was a horrible intersection of race and class, of exhaustion and power-wielding--ultimately, of highly charged, emotional and professional circumstances--that turned out exactly as badly as one would have expected. I might wish that Obama didn't use the word "stupidly" which, to those who perceive insult and slight in everything the president says and does, probably did carry with it a faint overture of smart-man-looking-down-on-less-educated-one, but good God, I can certainly appreciate the personal worldview he brought to bear, even as a white, blonde-haired, green-eyed woman who's never been profiled. Unless you count various men assuming I am stupid, or that I'm monolingual and thus unaware of the (usually humorously) explicit things they're saying about me, which is hardly the same thing as racial profiling.

Sir Charles

Testing comments -- I've been trying to post one for an hour. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

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