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September 13, 2008

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Lisa Simeone

Ah, yes, from the Reagan era to the Bush era, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

MR Bill

Also, "le monde c'est une comedie pour ceux qui pense, cest un tragedie pour ceux qui sentient"..
I think Frank chose to laugh rather than weep.

Lisa Simeone

Mr. Bill,

Now this brings up a very interesting grammatical question, one I remember from high school French: does the relative pronoun "qui" always take the 3rd person singular, or does it take a verb form reflecting its antecedent? Your quotation plays both sides -- in the first clause we have the 3rd person singular, and in the second, the 3rd person plural.

Even the French can't seem to agree on this.

MR Bill

That's because my french is that of the second year of secondary school. I tried to google it but...

Lisa Simeone

But you did it beautifully! The French themselves disagree with each other about this. I liked seeing it both ways in the same sentence; killing two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Prof. Bleen

I respectfully disagree that he was ahead of his time. He was right on topic at the time, and in the late 1970s, and now. Thanks for pointing this out!

michelr

From a French (zappa-lover) guy:
"le monde c'est une comedie pour ceux qui pense, cest un tragedie pour ceux qui sentient"
is almost correct, and should be:
"le monde c'est une comédie pour ceux qui pensent, c'est un tragédie pour ceux qui sentent".
Using "qui" is right in both cases (singular and plural), and there is no disagreement about that.
Hope this helps (and ask for more if necessary).
PS: I agree that French is difficult :-)

Lisa Simeone

But many French grammarians say that "qui" ALWAYS takes the singular, no matter the antecedent.

I don't think French is any more difficult than English. The grammar's pretty straightforward; there's just disagreement on certain fine points as there is in English.

michelr

No, sorry, I'm really sure that the subsequent verb gets singular or plural depending on what "qui" represents (hope I'm clear here). "qui" is a pronoun, so it gets the number and gender of what it represents:
"le texte qui est chanté", "les textes qui sont chantés", "la chanson qui est chantée", "les chansons qui sont chantées". I would be curious to read any controversy about this.

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