My wife and I made the astonishingly bad decision to buy a Dell laptop for our son for school. It simply never occurred to me that getting support for a product from a company of this size could ever be half as difficult as it has proven to be. In my experience, all of Dell's customer service is handled offshore in India and I would rather have needles driven into my eyes than deal with these folks.
My wife has spent hours this weekend begging, pleading, yelling, threatening, keening, wailing, sobbing quietly -- exploring the entire panoply of the human telephonic repertoire -- trying in vain to get someone to email an address label to send the computer in for repair. I am talking about hours of phone time over the course of six or seven separate calls. (I long ago concluded that life is too short and that we should head off to the Apple Store, but I am afraid if I say this now she might just beat me to death -- no seriously, if you heard her cries of "no more bullshit, no more bullshit" emerging from our office you'd be afraid too.)
I have often joked that the notion that we have moved to a "service" economy is grossly exaggerated. However, the level of service available in the U.S. -- even from insurance companies and DMVs -- is so vastly superior to that available from Bangalore it makes me even want to deal with the DC bureaucracy before calling Dell "Service."
There is no problem solving ethos at all. The call center personnel want to follow whatever script they have and get you off the phone. If they need to lie in order to do so, they will, without a nanosecond of hesitation and there is simply no accountability.
I remain extremely skeptical of claims that India is going to emerge as a major economic powerhouse, perhaps as a result of this experience, perhaps as a result of having read the novel, "English, August" by Upamanyu Chatterjee twenty years ago -- (highly recommended by the way.)
My recommendation -- buy something where there is at least the remote possibility that you could actually grab someone by the collar and shake them when they fail to give you the service to which you are entitled. If you ignore this sage advice and go with Dell you stand a good chance being "hazaar* fucked" like Chaterjee's character Agastya.
*Urdu for thousand -- as in a thousand times fucked.
We bought a Dell desktop for my wife last month, and we've had no problems at all with it. Of course now you've got me anxious about what we'll have to deal with if something does go wrong.
I've got an HP desktop and an HP laptop, and their customer service is handled off-shore* as well, though. It's damned near impossible to get an articulate, helpful customer service rep these days, off-shore or not.
(*Such a stupid euphemism. Like India is floating just off the California coast.)
Posted by: Toast | July 27, 2008 at 06:14 PM
My rig is a two-year-old bottom-of-the-line dell and it's treated me pretty nice...not that I've doned it the same courtesy.
Posted by: Sara Anderson | July 27, 2008 at 06:25 PM
If you're wondering what I've "doned" to my typing skills, it's popsicle-related.
Posted by: Sara Anderson | July 27, 2008 at 06:29 PM
I work with HP in an agency capacity, and they haven't just 'offshored' (ugh, I hate that word, too - a more honest phrasing would be 'taken jobs from the US and sold them down the river to India') their support. Oh, no. They've now 'offshored' their marketing operations, too. So now I'm having to deal with someone half a world away, with imperfect English and, yes, apparently no accountability. Everyone is frustrated - it was never easy to get any kind of copy approved by HP, but now, at least in this offshored division, it's an absolute nightmare.
Posted by: Ailei | July 27, 2008 at 07:03 PM
Sara,
Glad it's just the popsicle. I was concerned that the surgeon had left a typo in there.
I don't think the Dell products themselves are necessarily subpar, but God help you if you need asistance.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 27, 2008 at 07:16 PM
Sir C, if you do wind up getting a Mac, purchase the dot-mac membership (email acccounts, lots of remote storage, MobileMe--the ability to snyc everthing with one's Treo/Blackberry/iPhone and be able to get to your docs and pics from any computer anywhere, etc.) and spring for the Pro Care card, because that gives you extended warranty (if I remember correctly), and if something does go wrong, first priority repair (your machine is seen to faster, locally, and ahead of others' computers.)
A friend in the computer repair biz told me that all the laptops built these days use hard drives that, in his experience, have a 20% failure rate within the first few months of ownership. He said he orders boxes of new hard-drives with which to repair computers, and this failure percentage is borne out all the time. Come to think of it, Ezra had that happen with his new Macbook. But it's across-the-board: one in five laptop hard-drives fails. So be extra-vigilant about backing up photos and documents when they're stored on a new laptop.
There's no such thing as a perfect computer. But I will say this: we had two Compaq PC's that were repeatedly infected with whatever the Threat Du Jour was (yes, we had Norton) and they both crashed and burned to the point of complete uselessness. Another one was rendered so slow as to be almost useless. The Macs we bought after that have been a joy to use--no viruses, ever. No crashing, no data loss, no problems at all. So yeah, I'm a convert.
I bet Stephen will be along shortly to point out how Apple sells an image, not a good computer!
Posted by: litbrit | July 27, 2008 at 07:19 PM
My daughter got a Dell 3 years ago for college, but the support ran through the college. She has had a few problems, but she took it to the college folks and they dealt directly with Dell. The response was certainly adequate. I bought a Gateway for work from Best Buy. It has had a few problems, but the Geek Squad solved them all. You have to be somewhat creative, or lucky, to avoid the off-shore incomprehensible "help" folks.
Posted by: Mudge | July 27, 2008 at 07:24 PM
I must have lucked out since I've had my Dell laptop for about 2.7 years now and have had zero problems other than replacing the charger once and a column of pixels on the screen that has burned out. I mainly got a Dell because my work had a perk that allowed me to essentially get a 12-month zero interest installment loan to pay for it.
Solid state drives are starting to find their way into consumer PCs, these should have a lower failure rate due to the lack of moving components. As the cost drops, they should become the standard. Basic gospel for engineers is that the more moving parts there are, the greater the possibility of failure, especially when you're talking about applications that are sensitive to small defects.
Being deaf and having to use the relay service when I call customer service, I really like to avoid it whenever possible. It's why I abandoned my Sidekick (the original Color Sidekick) after my contract was up because it was constantly having issues and I had become used to telling the relay operator to tell the customer service rep that I had already turned the device off and then on, and to go ahead and kick me up to someone who knew what they were talking about. And that was for customer service based in the US!
Posted by: Scott K | July 27, 2008 at 08:01 PM
Sir C, what about the store from which you bought it? You mean even they won't deal with this? Aren't they accountable, too?
Posted by: Lisa Simeone | July 27, 2008 at 08:08 PM
You buy Dell products online -- until recently that was the only way to do it. Thus, there is no human retailer to kick in the ass.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 27, 2008 at 08:09 PM
I bet Stephen will be along shortly to point out how Apple sells an image, not a good computer!
Well, jeez, not if you're going to take all the fun out of it. I just can't afford an Apple - well, not and get all the bells, whistles and other gewgaws I want with it.
Funny thing about accents, I've been on the phone with people in India, I've been around people in the Caribbean, Mexico, Korea, Singapore (Malay, Indian and Chinese accents), Indonesians, and at one point my daughter's daycare provider was an immigrant from Poland. The worst time I've ever had understanding someone's accent was when I was speaking to a man from Boston.
Here's another one: when my wife and I first moved to Kansas City so I could go to seminary, we tried out a church and I asked her what she thought. She said it was pretty good, but what really impressed her was the way they would have a preacher with a speech impediment. He was, of course, simply from Boston.
But your typing has hardly any accent at all, Sir Charles!
Posted by: Stephen | July 27, 2008 at 08:12 PM
Ummm... this may be a little personal, but shouldn't your son be handling the hassle of getting his computer repaired? It's awful nice of you to do it for him, but if he's old enough to have his own computer (I assume by school, you mean college, right?), he's old enough to deal with customer-service purgatory like every other adult.
Posted by: Philly | July 27, 2008 at 08:17 PM
Unfortunately your post has racist qualities. I've little doubt that whatever run around you're getting isn't independently produced by some inherent quality of Indian culture or heritage. It's far more likely that some All-American types are telling the support people to do exactly what they are doing.
I've got an old Dell desktop that was very cheap and has served me well, which also means I've never had to call for support, so I can't comment on the support service. There is an excellent Dell message board where you may be able to find some useful info from other Dell users.
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/
Good luck and keep your anger focused.
Oh, and as for a Mac, they too have a message board where users post their problem experiences. Not much better than Dell in that regard. At least Dell doesn't call their flunkies "geniuses."
Posted by: Amos Anan | July 27, 2008 at 08:29 PM
Do you have kids, Philly? Kids that you've sent off to college or are preparing to send off to college in the near future? If so, your comment is just a bit out of line -- as you note yourself. If not, you'll learn to be humble about judging other people's parenting when you arrive at such crossroads. In my experience, there are very few universal truths when it comes to raising kids.
There are, however, universal truths when it comes to laptops: they all pretty much suck. Which is why customer service is so important. Which is why Apples, with an extended warranty, are the only way to go. But they don't come cheap. And so we come full circle to all laptops pretty much sucking.
Posted by: ari | July 27, 2008 at 08:45 PM
Amos, I assure you that Sir C is not a racist, and if I may poke my nose into the matter (since I'm doing it anyway), I'd say he is merely recounting his frustration with an American company that sells products (and reaps profits) in America--a primarily English-speaking country--but for its customer "service" department, hires the citizens of a foreign country, one in which English is not the primary language. Dealing with any voice on the phone (as opposed to a live human being at a store or repair shop) is difficult to begin with; it's nearly impossible when said voice belongs to someone half-way around the world who has not mastered English well enough to communicate clearly. The location of the service call center and nationality or ethnicity of the employees--in this case, India--are not the issues; rather, it is Dell's practice of "offshoring" service personnel in the first place that Sir C decries.
I imagine an Indian (or French, or Swedish) customer who'd spent a small fortune on a defective product and had to call the retailer for assistance would be similarly frustrated if the person on the other end of the line was an American in, say, Dallas or Newark who kept repeating dismissive company talking points in mangled Urdu (or French or Swedish) with a nearly-incomprehensible American accent.
Posted by: litbrit | July 27, 2008 at 09:43 PM
Philly,
The lad is only 15 -- I don't really want to traumatize him for life. If he were in college I think I would let him grapple.
Amos,
I apologize if this sounded racist -- I don't think observations about a culture are inherently racist -- the Indian legal system, for instance, is deeply disfunctional. Is saying that racist? I am sure Dell management shares much of the blame -- but I also think there is probably a cultural aspect to this.
Stephen,
I've shed my Boston accent -- I have to agree it can be a bit grating to the ears. I remember once that my parents couldn't get an automated voice system to understand what they were saying because of their accents.
My problem, by the way, with the call center people is not their accents or command of language -- it is their inability to actually take initiative and solve problems.
We paid quite a bit for the extended Dell warranty and service plan and it has been deeply frustrating to see what it has purchased.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 27, 2008 at 09:44 PM
FWIW, I have an IBM ThinkPad (lenovo T60), courtesy of my bosses thank you very much - and that's the brand the tech dept prefers, apparently. It hasnt been entirely without problems - the battery crapped out in less than a year (which did luckily mean it was still covered by the standard warranty). But overall I'm pretty happy with it.
Posted by: nimh | July 27, 2008 at 09:56 PM
If I may toot my own horn here, I myself dealt successfully with several Dell operatives at the age of 15 and so far have yet to show signs of grievous psychic damage.
More importantly, Charles, there is a wonderful opportunity to the phone service, and that's the online chat function. Yes, it's probably still the same Bangalorean/Singaporean/Subcontintentean staff, but having things written down makes the process a whole lot easier for both the helper and the helpee. You have to grit your teeth and jump through the hoops, but in the end you can usually get something done. There's a link to the chat on the support site somewhere.
Posted by: fumphis | July 27, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Thanks Fumphis -- I was contemplating trying that. Maybe I will give it a shot.
I still don't think the lad is assertive enough for this endeavor, although it is going to be his soon.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 27, 2008 at 10:45 PM
i dunno, man. all i've owned is dells and they've been pretty great for me. granted, like you i do want to stab the support staff in the eye with a fork... but what company would you not?
i actually had a problem with my last laptop where they charged me shipping after the fact. they decided that one of my accessories was third party and weren't authorized to charge shipping. however my final bill of sale email didn't have shipping. so when i called and explained to the desi on the phone that, regardless of what goes down in india, this was an illegal move in the US, they didn't seem to care.
...and then i went to the "IM support" on the website and cleared it up in 2 seconds.
so, not so bad for me, i guess.
but like i said, what company would give you a painless experience, seriously?
i mean, maybe mac. i've never tried. but macs are so absolutely regoddamdiculously overpriced... it's not worth the dollars to me.
i buys my dells at half the mac price, load up ubuntu, and compute happily...
Posted by: dan | July 27, 2008 at 10:58 PM
upon second perusal, perhaps i could have made a long story short by just seconding fumphis' endorsement of the IM support...
Posted by: dan | July 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM
These stories are like chain emails--I swear I keep hearing the same story, only with different details. One time it's a Dell, the next an IBM, etc.
Depending on your child's needs and age, I would recommend getting a slightly used Mac if you can't afford a new one. Our 1999 model runs beautifully (as a backup, and we put it in our daughter's room while she's in college so guests and she would have a computer). I use my daughter's old 2002 laptop, and despite its broken disk drawer, I can surf the internet while watching tv.
Of course nothing beats the brand new 24-inch iMac we got a couple months ago. Daughter Number Two inherited the 2 year old iMac and has sent it to her college, where I'm sure it will work just fine for a couple of years.
Keeping it in the family.
Posted by: KathyF | July 28, 2008 at 02:34 AM
Same complaint, different industry: air travel.
You know those automated phone reminders that frequent flyers can sign up for to remind them of upcoming travel and changes in flight times?
Someone signed up for one of those with United - and somehow included my cell number as one of the numbers that the alerts went to.
Try to explain to someone who's got just enough English to follow the script, that no, you're not a United customer, but they're inconveniencing you anyway in this peculiar fashion, and you'd like them to stop.
On a few occasions over a six-month period, I'd wear them out enough so they'd transfer me to some American techs, who'd eventually tell me they'd fixed the problem and I shouldn't be getting any more calls. But I had to hack my way through interminable conversations with the help line people in India before I could even get to the Americans.
After six months, I gave up the fight. I've had this cell phone number for just shy of three years now, and I'm still getting the automated reminders when my doppelganger goes traveling.
Posted by: low-tech cyclist | July 28, 2008 at 05:46 AM
I've had a little luck with Indian help desks by asking about cricket. Yes, its true. I ask about what happened to the coach who was found dead in his hotel room, or the new Indian stadium league, or the bowler who turned Pakastani politician. Its great. Unless they are in the Philippines. Also, you need to watch out for appearing knowledgeable rather than interested. Did you ever see a WWII movie where they grill an unknown soldier approaching the sentry? ("Who's in first?" "The Yankees" "What about the National League?" "The Dodgers." "Ya Nazi Bum!" Bang!! And I own a mac, so I've never made a service call on a laptop.
Posted by: drip | July 28, 2008 at 06:41 AM
drip,
I could manage this with soccer, but cricket . . . it's just beyond me.
My cable/phone/internet company offshores to the Philippines, but I think only on off hours. Service is pretty lousy on that front as well.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 28, 2008 at 07:30 AM
Now I've got the scene from Firesign's Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers where the war-movie sentry shouts out, "Hey'a Joe! Who'a won'a Second World'a War, you so smart?"
Posted by: low-tech cyclist | July 28, 2008 at 09:25 AM
Sir Charles, time to learn some cricket.
LTC, what a beaut.
Posted by: drip | July 28, 2008 at 12:33 PM
drip,
Excellent article -- thanks.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 28, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Ackerman is a terrific reporter. And the most popular athlete in the world is not Tiger Woods, Tom Brady or even David Beckham. Its either Yao Ming or some South Asian cricketer that we've never heard of. Its a great big world and we better start learning about it or we won't even be able to win a war. Heh.
Posted by: drip | July 28, 2008 at 02:58 PM
Just be sure you refer to it as "the cricket". As in, "In the cricket today, Pakistan came roaring back after tea to score 59 wickets".
And if you don't think the cricket can spark international crises, think again.
Posted by: KathyF | July 28, 2008 at 03:11 PM
Thank you KathyF. Now, instead of making a silly point I feel like I could actually be a Silly Point.
Posted by: drip | July 28, 2008 at 04:52 PM
it is their inability to actually take initiative and solve problems.
Indeed. No offense to the customer service operators out there, but they're just not the sharpest needles in the bunch. Any whose job it is to take phone calls from users (i.e. you and I) and read a script trying to fix things is just not going be that good at thinking outside the box. Unfortunately, we need these jobs and we need bodies to fill them. Support in the computer industry loses money all around. The best they can do is lose the least possible. Where do you think they are going to skimp? Salaries are more expensive than computer parts...
With that said, I've had a problem-free Dell laptop for 2 years. My only complaint is directed at myself, I shouldn't have bought a 17 inch screen as its too damn heavy for travel. I've heard of Dell support horror stories which is why I didn't bother with an extended warranty. The laptop was cheap enough that if it dies in 3+ years, I've gotten my money's worth.
I will say, Dell Small Business support is much better to deal with. We have a contract where they send technicians out if anything happens. We had a power supply replaced in day on a server. But, you gotta pony up the $$$.
As far a consumer products, they do well because their products are priced somewhat cheaper and have the added convenience of online ordering. I get their magazine from time to time and looking at the new quad-core desktops makes me think about getting back into online gaming...
Posted by: Adrock | July 29, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Adrock,
Years ago my wife decided we needed a laptop with a 17" screen and a full sized keyboard. We call it a desk top now. Seriously, I think I've taken it out of the house twice and it is just impossible to travel with -- those trays in coach class aren't even big enough to accomodate it.
We use Dells in my office and that is fine because of having IT support. But when you have a laptop lugged back and forth to school every day by a 15 year old boy you are going to need customer service every now and again -- and on that score Dell just doesn't cut it.
Posted by: Sir Charles | July 29, 2008 at 11:26 AM