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July 06, 2008

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Joe Klein's conscience

Isn't "The Third Way" related to the DLC? They have pretty much the same goals. That Democrats need to move to that mythical "center" and also that Democrats need to be more business friendly(What ever that means).

low-tech cyclist

Third Way has recently been promoting "abortion reduction" as its goal and as an electoral strategy. To which I say "bollocks." The number of abortions that should be performed in America is the number that women, for whatever circumstances, find that they need.

This is where I get off the bus. Maybe it's because I feel like creating a fetus only to destroy it is something to be avoided on moral grounds, at least as much as letting your cat have kittens that you don't have homes for and are going to have to give to the animal shelter to likely be euthanized is something to be avoided on moral grounds.

And polls suggest that this is where the great middle of the electorate is on this issue. Hence the "safe, legal, and rare" formulation that Clinton pushed in 1992 and has been part of Dem platforms ever since. It works, because that's where the people are.

But you're absolutely right about the rest of it. With respect to Saletan and the Third Way and whatnot, the main Dem response should be: we own abortion reduction. We're the ones who've been fighting for easier access to contraception, and for education that'll help teens having sex avoid conceiving children in the first place. And we've been getting nothing but hindrance from "pro-lifers", who have at every turn been standing in the way of any sex ed besides abstinence-only, and who have actively been throwing up barriers between women and access to contraceptives.

So fuck 'em. We're the good guys on this issue, and we have nothing to apologize for. Dionne and Saletan and other third-way types need to make that clear - make it clear which side has been advocating the 'third way' for many years now, which side will have nothing to do with it, and which side needs to be the one to change its ways for their 'third way' to be possible. It's time for the Dionnes and Saletans of the world to stop lecturing Dems, and start lecturing pro-lifers.

And Dems need to tell the 'pro-lifers': "Fuck you. All you want to do is ban abortion, ban meaningful sex ed, and restrict access to contraception. There's no point in talking to you." (Hell, they probably want to ban contraception too, but are afraid to say so out loud, because they know they'd have the support of about 7% of the electorate on that one.)

Sir Charles

l-t c,

I think in trying to be forceful on this point, I was less than subtle. I don't think people should consciously set out to have unwanted pregnancies to abort. It is vastly preferable that one avoid all unnecessary surgical procedures of any kind and obviously the proper use of birth control is the better approach to this problem from both a public health perspective and as a moral matter for many people.

But I want to avoid and indeed push back against the stigmatization of abortion and the defensive posture into which we have been pushed.

And yes, these people are anti-contraception and they have no desire to reduce abortion in ths way. They want the sluts to stop having and enjoying sex.

anon

"I don't think people should consciously set out to have unwanted pregnancies to abort."

BECAUSE THIS TOTALLY HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. jesus.

Sir Charles

Anon,

I don't either --I was responding to l-t c's comment that "creating a fetus only to destroy it" was something with which he wasn't morally comfortable.

low-tech cyclist

I should clarify: I don't think anyone sets out to get pregnant in order to abort. But even in the absence of intent, it's still something to be avoided on moral grounds, IMHO. (I generally don't give a rat's ass about intent anyway; I'm more concerned with outcomes.)

Corvus9

I think I am kind of with l-t c on this one. While Saletan is obviously a total douche, I think there is some truth to the idea that dems/progs/libs/"the left" should be willing to be a little, uh, "soft" on abortion. I mean, I have met lot's of people who are perfectly nice reasonable types, even self-described feminists, who have problems or qualms or reservations with abortions during the third trimester. I don't actually know anybody personally who thinks abortions should be allowed up until labor. So I think voicing some degree of reservation or uncomfortableness with the procedure is actually sensible.

I guess what I am saying is that abortion is an issue where there actually is a large degree is nuance in public opinion, so it probably doesn't hurt to express some nuance or compromise in one's position. The pro-life/pro-choice dichotomy is false. And since the "pro-choice" side actually is, you know, the good guys here, it probably doesn't hurt to express opinions reflecting the actual opinions of its members.

(Man, talking about abortion sucks. It's like wearing boots while walking around on eggshells in the dark, with music playing. You just know you are breaking stuff, you can just feel it, but you can't really tells what exactly you're stepping on. Or something.)

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