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April 01, 2008

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Benjamin

Hum ... excuse me but isn't Philly and its suburbs HIS strongholds ?

Nicholas Beaudrot

Yes. But the big 5 -- Philadelphia, Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, and Delaware -- account for only 94,098 out of 234,801 new voters. even if you throw in Allegeney, Centre, Dauphin, Monroe, Lehigh, and Northampton counties it only gets him just over 50% of the new voters. For this to be a net win for O, you have to believe that there's something fundamentally different about the new voters in Clearfield County or the party switchers in Lackawanna County that makes them more likely to vote for Obama than the rest of the voters in their vicinity.

low-tech cyclist

On another subject, is it time to put Public Policy Polling (PPP) on the 'ignore' list? I honestly trust them less than ARG at this point.

They had Obama jumping from a 1-point lead in NC to a 21-point lead from one week to the next. And over a 2-week interval, they had Hillary's lead going from 26 points to negative (a 2% Obama lead).

Nobody thinks there was a 20-point swing in NC in a week, or a 28-point swing in PA in two weeks. Or anywhere close. Them's crazy numbers.

Nicholas Beaudrot

I think PPP has changed their voting universe. They've started to include people who voted in a general election in 2006, on the assumption that that's more in line with turnout (in Ohio, Clinton an Obama got 50,000 more votes than Sherrod Brown in '06), which explains some of the shift in NC. Presumably they did the same thing in PA. But I don't believe it at all.

ikl

PPP's new NC numbers seem plausible (their old poll their seemed off so that would explain part of the swing). The PA numbers do not.

John

es. But the big 5 -- Philadelphia, Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, and Delaware -- account for only 94,098 out of 234,801 new voters. even if you throw in Allegeney, Centre, Dauphin, Monroe, Lehigh, and Northampton counties it only gets him just over 50% of the new voters.

Berks, Lancaster, and York (but probably not Monroe) would probably be wise to look into.

Also, that's 40% of new voters in the Philly area, as compared to those counties comprising 31% of the total population of the state. That means new registration occurred disproportionately in the Philly area, doesn't it?

John

The internal numbers on the PPP, by the way, don't seem all that insane. I won't say it's necessarily right, but I don't know that it should be dismissed out of hand. Quinnipiac's numbers (Clinton +9) seem closest to what I'd suspect the "real" numbers are, but Obama is clearly starting to surge in PA.

Nicholas Beaudrot

Yes, but historically the Philly area represents 40% of Democratic voters. They ended up representing 45% of new voters, but only 41% of switchers.

I don't see why new voters in York, Lancaster, and Berks—or even Northampton and Lehigh—would be Obama voters. Demographically those areas favor Clinton -- almost entirely white, education levels below the statewide average. Now, maybe it's true that all new voters and party-switchers everywhere favor Obama but I just think that's very doubtful.

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