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December 09, 2007

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Sir Charles

Sarah,

As we all know, Mitt's true faith is in his own ambition and desperate need to advance. I am pretty certain he would speak in tongues, bark like a dog, or bathe in the Ganges if it would get him elected.

But you're right, it's deeply offensive to those of us who are skeptics or non-believers to suggest that we couldn't possibly be moral actors. And the notion that religion correspondends to feedom is laughable and speaks to the historic illiteracy of both Mitt and the media that reported so fawningly on his speech.

brooksfoe

Mitt apparently denounced the "religion of secularism" in his speech. This is something I absolutely cannot get my head around. I mean, if they think secularism is a religion, then what do they think is wrong with it?

Glenn Fayard

Speaking as someone who's gone to Mass for all of his 22 and change years, religion is a racket. It's pretty much the root of all oligarchy, and a way for people to be separated from their money. For that matter, even though I do believe in some kind of higher power (in as much of a Muslim/Buddhist/Transhumanist/etc. sense as anything else), religion is nothing more than a way to control people with dogma and scripture, and those two ain't nothin' but some guy's opinion.

On another note, I really hope those church shootings don't lead to something big. The news mentioned that at least one of the churches had participated in a "controversial" missionary program aimed at converting Muslims. I sincerely hope that was a case of irresponsible baseless fearmongering.

Stephen

The news mentioned that at least one of the churches had participated in a "controversial" missionary program aimed at converting Muslims. I sincerely hope that was a case of irresponsible baseless fearmongering.

"Controversial" missionary programs among Muslims are the ones where Christians act as if they are Muslims: they observe all practices, go to mosque, pray, everything. Some Christian missionaries have become Mullahs in order to have even more influence. After they've completely assimilated and gained trust, they start to talk about Jesus, portraying him as the fulfillment of Islam. It's incredibly dangerous, for the missionary and for anyone who converts as a result of their influence.

And it's wrong. Christianity's ethical demands don't get thrown out the window just because one is "spreading the gospel." At least they shouldn't be.

Tom

Wow -- way to bring Christianity into (even more) disrepute! What do these missionaries expect to accomplish, except to portray Christianity as a religion of lying poseurs?

litbrit

Disallowing people to not choose a faith doesn't sound very free to me. And what's more, it doesn't respect the concept of freely choosing a religion, something that Christian evangelism relies on.

This exactly. Excellent post, Sara. And I agree with Sir C that Multiple Choice Mitt--or Willard, as Shakes has taken to calling him--would probably do anything, ANYTHING, for the fifty bucks, so to speak. When it comes to the question of How Far Would Mitt Go to Pander, I wouldn't even rule out the possibility of him walking barefoot across hot coals while forty leeches were attached to his manly bits.

Sir Charles

I am guessing that those would have to be very small leeches.

paper tiger

To say there is no morality without god is to deny our humanity.Is this tied in with the rapture?When Milt speaks his belief in the bible,is he referring to the joseph smith version?

El Viajero

The question that I have for you 'atheists' is:

1)Do you send Christmas Cards?

2)Do you exchange gifts on or about the 25th of December?

3)Do you tell your parents how much of an atheist you are and that you believe that Christ is a crock?

sherrold

No cards -- I try to keep up with my friends throughout the year.

No prezzies -- though it's taken *years* to get it through some people's heads. I'd rather buy a prezzie when I'm visiting, or I see something in a store that reminds me of a friend or relative, than cram it all into December.

And yes, my parents know I'm an agnostic -- but why would I say I think their beliefs are "a crock?" They brought me up better behaved than than.

El Viajero

...my parents know I'm an agnostic

Agnostic is not atheism.

Next, please

Sara

I don't send Christmas cards, I do exchange gifts at Christmas (my family does on the 24th, though), and neither of my parents are religious.

My question for you: do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

ACS

1)Do you send Christmas Cards?

I should. It's the polite thing to do, if people don't think you're Christian.

2)Do you exchange gifts on or about the 25th of December?

Sure. So does everyone else in America who isn't specifically any other religion, and some of those that are.

3)Do you tell your parents how much of an atheist you are and that you believe that Christ is a crock?

What--are you demanding I be a dick to my parents? I don't believe in their religion. On the other hand, reason has never been proven to have any particular ethical value. Their religion isn't hurting anyone. Why do I have an obligation to change it?

-- ACS

El Viajero

What--are you demanding I be a dick to my parents?

You are embarrassed to let your parents know of your belief...or lach thereof.

Their religion isn't hurting anyone.

I agree. Chritianity is not a problem.

Why do I have an obligation to change it?

Not suggesting that you try to change anyone. Suggesting that your position is so reviled that you are embarrassed to tell your parents that you think Christ is a crock.....and it's true.


ACS

You are embarrassed to let your parents know of your belief...or lach thereof.

My parents know I'm an atheist, if that's what you mean. My nonbelief in God, however, is not the central fact of my life. Which means I'm obligated, as a decent human being, not to rub my philosophical disagreement with them in their face at every last opportunity.

-- ACS

El Viajero

Why not? You do on this board...

ACS

You asked a question, jackass. I answered it.

-- ACS

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